Atomic Parts Cost

[wetb4igetinthewater]

But frankly, I'm just as interested in what a company like Deep6 might introduce.

Well, you did write in the Deep 6 service manual about Deep 6's unique turbine piston.

I think it is rather disingenuous to state that smaller regulator companies don't do any innovation or improvements. The way things work in general in technology are gradual improvements over previous design. That is how the US patent system works. If this wasn't allowed, we woudln't be as advanced technologically as we are.

Past ideas spur new ones thankfully.j

Do any of you realize what a stack of incremental improvements you're using to read/write on this web forum? LOL

 

[Nemrod]

One area of innovation that has been spurred by the box factory brand importers is right to service and parts availability. Maybe it will push that concept into the mainstream.

Percieved value vs real value. Some people do value history and lineage, there is value there for some. And things like 30% glass fiber reinforced second stage nylon cases, some of which have anti-scratch PU coatings, that are nearly indestructible and built to persevere in rugged use. First stages with a replaceable HP orifice, exceptionally heavy A-clamps, universal fit DIN conversion kit. And hard cover second stage models with a removable cover without tools. And parts support that spans decades.

I think maybe we are headed towards disposable equipment, like so many other things we used to service and keep for years, now we just toss it in the landfill and get another.

 

[DWABoat]

…think maybe we are headed towards disposable equipment,..

Now that you mention it, I have not seen a TV repair shop in a long, long time!

 

[richard kanner]

This is my 2 cents.

I think sometimes we are blind to the total economics. For example I think most of the parts in the Atomic 1st stage kit are rather simple, so I'll make my own kit. I believe the o-rings (8 i think) are standard size, after I spend a day soucing and figuring out what durometer to buy I pull the trigger. However, I have to by in bulk so I end up with enough o-rings for 100 kits that cost me ~ $100 with tax and shipping and i still don't have the specialty parts such as the high pressure seat, filter, and teflon washer and spring clip. Ok simple piece of teflon machined for the HP seat. I'll make one. Some $1000 later after I engineered what material and got the tooling I can make them for $1.00 each if I make 100. Spring clip filter and teflon washer I get a deal on and by 100 for another $500. Then of course I have to package (bags $30) and store them until I can distribute them to my friends. My cost overall cost per kit is probably $7. So I think cool, and I brag to my friends how cheap I can get a kit, and I will sell them one. 10 years later I still have enough for 80 more regulators. My labor and warehousing cost are not factored in because I am doing this in my free time and my garage is attached to my house. Manufactures don't have this luxury they pay for labor, warehousing, inventory tax, tax on profits, insurance, marketing, etc. In reality the cost of my first kit was probably $2000-3000 if i factor in a cost of labor for time and the materials, not to mention long term storage. So at this stage the $40 i pay for the kit is worth it, as long as I can get the kits. It is a different story if the manufacturer restricts the parts. Then we start going down the path of Right to Repair ( Google Apple or John Deer and RIght to Repair).

 

[Geo7]

This is my 2 cents.

I think sometimes we are blind to the total economics. For example I think most of the parts in the Atomic 1st stage kit are rather simple, so I'll make my own kit. I believe the o-rings (8 i think) are standard size, after I spend a day soucing and figuring out what durometer to buy I pull the trigger. However, I have to by in bulk so I end up with enough o-rings for 100 kits that cost me ~ $100 with tax and shipping and i still don't have the specialty parts such as the high pressure seat, filter, and teflon washer and spring clip. Ok simple piece of teflon machined for the HP seat. I'll make one. Some $1000 later after I engineered what material and got the tooling I can make them for $1.00 each if I make 100. Spring clip filter and teflon washer I get a deal on and by 100 for another $500. Then of course I have to package (bags $30) and store them until I can distribute them to my friends. My cost overall cost per kit is probably $7. So I think cool, and I brag to my friends how cheap I can get a kit, and I will sell them one. 10 years later I still have enough for 80 more regulators. My labor and warehousing cost are not factored in because I am doing this in my free time and my garage is attached to my house. Manufactures don't have this luxury they pay for labor, warehousing, inventory tax, tax on profits, insurance, marketing, etc. In reality the cost of my first kit was probably $2000-3000 if i factor in a cost of labor for time and the materials, not to mention long term storage. So at this stage the $40 i pay for the kit is worth it, as long as I can get the kits. It is a different story if the manufacturer restricts the parts. Then we start going down the path of Right to Repair ( Google Apple or John Deer and RIght to Repair).

+1 ... I gave up on the idea of making kits, because Atomic seats and o-rings last such a long time in a reg.

The o-rings that wear quickest in my dive gar and need ca. annual replacement are SPG swivel o-rings. These I do get in bulk, but am not sure which material lasts longer. Just switched from viton to NBR.

 

[rsingler]

Just switched from viton to NBR.

Yep.

 

[BoltSnap]

Yep.

It is late here, I am tired and no diving for a week or so due to a storm so my brain is hardly working now, I don't get what you mean, please clarify?

 

[Geo7]

I think he confirmed my switching from viton o-rings in pressure gauge swivels to now using NBR buna (nitrile) o-rings, in the hope that they will last longer.

 

[rsingler]

I am increasingly switching from Viton to EPDM or NBR where high-pressure high oxygen content is not in play. Since I'm regularly servicing my gear, I don't worry about the reduced lifespan of nitrile.

Take a Viton oring and a matching nitrile oring and loop it around a thin rod held in a vise. Put a luggage scale inside each oring and pull until it breaks. The comparison will surprise you.

Look at a viton oring that has been under significant compression. Viton performs (to my knowledge) less well than either EPDM or nitrile under long term deformation.

Where we're talking HP o-rings for Nitrox or deco concentrations of oxygen, Viton remains the choice from a liability standpoint, and may have reduced risk of ignition.

But of course, if you are required to use only OEM service kits, the question has already been answered for you.

 

[BoltSnap]

My brain is still not working, been driving all day along the coastline and seeing that waves are coming in HUGE which means another weekend of no diving. Can you please point out which o'ring material is compatible with 100% O2 and which ones are compatible with ≤40% O2?