Are you armed?

[Randy43068]

tlt, you won't find a stronger proponent of the second than I. Having said that, I'm afraid we'll all be surprised if we think we can out gun the Federal Government.

 

[tlt]

Agreed, and my point exactly -- although that was the purpose of the 2nd amendment. It was not to have a right to hunt and defend yourself from intruders, as some would say. Certainly it is a side benefit, but it is why we have the right. Of course, in order to buy tanks, planes, and other such "equal" weapons, you need be be licensed by who -- the federal government, I have a problem with that. I have a problem with any government regulation of any weapons here. And certainly if everyone was armed certain other seedy types would think twice. Now I am not talking about the state regulated CHL, again this is BS, who says the state should track WHO has the right to carry, and why hide it. I think if everyone is carrying and somebody is waiving a gun around, somebody would quickly deal with the problem... problem solved. Can you imagine one of these heated town hall meetings with the entire audience carrying, man I bet these politician types would start acting a lot different.

cheers

 

[gypsyjim]

tlt,
When I was growing up there were still a lot of my family living in western states and seeing sidearms on the belt was quite common. Public meets back then did not have metal detectors on the doors, and one would always assume that your neighbor,the guy in the truck next to you, or at the town hall was armed also. It was accepted, and I don't remember the nightly shoot outs that current opinion would suggest!

Randy
To some extent, Randy you are overlooking one or two factors that might come into play if push ever should come to shove, but only if Americans do not lose sight of what rights, liberties and self government is all about. (And this supports the value of the Second Amendment in insuring the continuance of a free society.) Remember that the Constitution would never have been passed at all without those first amendments; they were not some silly afterthought.
In the late 1700's people knew enough to never completely trust ANY government, and wished to forever maintain the right and ability to tell a government NO!
1) There are a LOT more citizens than there are armed government types, still, and even though more lightly armed, numbers count. A factor you can be sure the politician is aware of. To truly control a population a ruler must first find a way to disarm them, willingly is best, if at all possible, but it must be done.
2) Ours is in most ways not a standing professional military, but is made up of ordinary fellow, citizens who will have a say in whether or not they are willing to turn their admittedly larger and more powerful weapons on their fellow citizens. Reliance on members of State Militias or National Guard for the nation's military strength works to keep the citizen and soldier closer than in many other nations. I think there are still a great many volunteer soldiers that would be unwilling to turn their heavy weapons on fellow citizens who were only defending their rights, and those of their fellow citizens.
Power is not always about who has the bigger gun, but in who is willing to go to the mat for their beliefs. The Second Amendment will always stand as a hurdle for those seeking to control this nation, for these reasons, and will always be under attack by those who wish to decrease it's potential effect on future outcomes. These attacks though have never been, not can they successfully ever be, direct. Slowly watering down, reinterpreting, redefining and gradually destroying this amendment is the only way to end it.

 

[Randy43068]

Jim, your point is well taken, however I remain my my comment. We're not going to out-gun the federal government. If things deteriorate to the state you describe we'll only be a tack in the shoe of the giant.

 

[tlt]

Well Randy, we do not have to agree on everything anyway. I tend to agree with Jim and he certainly has a better way with words than I do. We certainly hope things would never come to that type of scenario.

One thing you can take to the bank (preferably not a privately owned one, like the Federal Reserve ha ha).. Americans can be counted on in the worst of times, and their spirit and tenacity fed by the fuel of freedom can not be stopped. When things are at their worst, Americans for the most part are at their best, and come to help their neighbors without hesitation even when we do not agree.

I agree with Jim, that fellow citizens are not likely to turn their heavy weapons on fellow citizens because the federal government said so. It might happen in a small way, and often does, but if this ever happened such a fire storm would be started that it could not be stopped. Remember, those military guys and gals are our Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, etc. I was also a soldier.

The Federal government can pass any law they want, but I am quite confident that they will never come to collect guns from a large majority of those owners without a fight. True freedom is earned and comes from strength, not weakness and complacency.

 

[Randy43068]

Well Randy, we do not have to agree on everything anyway. I tend to agree with Jim and he certainly has a better way with words than I do. We certainly hope things would never come to that type of scenario.

One thing you can take to the bank (preferably not a privately owned one, like the Federal Reserve ha ha).. Americans can be counted on in the worst of times, and their spirit and tenacity fed by the fuel of freedom can not be stopped. When things are at their worst, Americans for the most part are at their best, and come to help their neighbors without hesitation even when we do not agree.

I agree with Jim, that fellow citizens are not likely to turn their heavy weapons on fellow citizens because the federal government said so. It might happen in a small way, and often does, but if this ever happened such a fire storm would be started that it could not be stopped. Remember, those military guys and gals are our Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, etc. I was also a soldier.

The Federal government can pass any law they want, but I am quite confident that they will never come to collect guns from a large majority of those owners without a fight. True freedom is earned and comes from strength, not weakness and complacency.

True. Fundamentally, I agree, but don't be fooled into thinking that an armed American populace these days is what's keeping the government at bay.

It's my hope that you're right, that the military won't turn it's guns on the populace but to be sure, it's not because we're armed, it's because they would respect our ( theirs, too ) way of life and understand the implications of doing so.

I have guns, like guns, and am a strong second supporter, but I also know that the best trained and equipped military in the world will have little difficulty having their way should that unthinkable situation ever arise.

 

[gypsyjim]

True. Fundamentally, I agree, but don't be fooled into thinking that an armed American populace these days is what's keeping the government at bay.

It's my hope that you're right, that the military won't turn it's guns on the populace but to be sure, it's not because we're armed, it's because they would respect our ( theirs, too ) way of life and understand the implications of doing so.

I have guns, like guns, and am a strong second supporter, but I also know that the best trained and equipped military in the world will have little difficulty having their way should that unthinkable situation ever arise.

In the same way that a few shop keepers and farmers were no obstacle to the best trained, led and equiped professional army on the face of the earth in the late 1700's?

Let us hope that the unthinkable remains so forever, but there are no guarantees. Our founding fathers, even after crafting the best possible, limited government that they could, were determined that in the future citizens would forever have the right to stand up to their government and say no, if that government should ever forget that it is there to serve, and at digression of, the populace, and not the reverse.

 

[H2Andy]

i really like guns, but now Obama has outlawed all guns and confiscated all ammo, so ...

i guess i'm a criminal now for packing heat

i thought it was a great buy at the time, but it's a bitch to hide from the cops

 

[tlt]

That's awesome.. don't worry about hiding it, it's a great deterrent.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

once them there crazy fellers come out of the wood work, you might want to try some of that there Flechette ammo, so stock up. DeltaForce.com

Now let's sit back and wait

Thanks for the link but I have some flechette rounds, and some square-shot rounds; the square shot is like rock salt, 'cept it's lead.