Are you a stroke?

[Natasha]

Am or or am I not? Only my hairdresser knows for sure ...
Well, I have my octopus intergrated with my BC inflator, so I can pass my primary reg in a low air situation. So what does that make me Sherpa? :gorgeous:

 

[Rick Murchison]

Originally posted by Lost Yooper
I won't do an advanced dive with someone who doesn't share my philosophy and gear configuration. I just won't dive.

I do believe ye've hit on something here, LY. And it is the principal difference in DIR advocates and "Safe Diving" advocates. Ye see, I'd gladly dive with you on an advanced dive even though your gear configuration may be markedly different than mine. I would take the time to learn your configuration, brief the differences, the implications of the differences in case of emergency situations, and go over specifics of what we'd expect to happen and what we'd expect each other to do. I'd look at your deco plan and unless there was some part of it I just couldn't fit into my own envelope, I'd modify mine to stay with you. We'd do an "S" drill with emphasis on any points that differ from your "standard procedure" before descending, and we'd have a great, safe dive.
I think my tolerance for a rather wide range of configurations has its roots in Naval Aviation, where in the airwing we had several different types of aircraft whose configurations and characteristics were quite different, but with whom we were expected to carry out the most dangerous and difficult missions - smoothly. From time to time I was also required to be proficient in more than one aircraft with markedly different emergency prodcedures that must be "automatic." Being able to handle different scuba gear configurations, to keep emergency procedures straight based on what you're wearing and what you're doing pales in comparison. It just ain't a big deal.
C'mon down and I'll introduce you to the caves.
Rick

 

[CAMPER]

Boy, does this sound a lot like the arguments we used to have in grade school, Grease VS Surf.

The terminology is really getting in the way of some important discussions.

Ed B

ps. I was always a surf and will be till the day I die!!

 

[roakey]

I consider myself a stroke because the day I don't is the day I stop learning and/or improving.

I don't want that day to ever come.

Roak

 

[Rick Murchison]

Originally posted by roakey
I consider myself a stroke because the day I don't is the day I stop learning and/or improving.

I don't want that day to ever come.

Roak

Bingo! A shiny new dime for Roak!
Although I'd apply the "stroke" moniker to the guy who gets back from a dive and doesn't think he learned anything on it.
I have always said, and always taught, that the day I complete a dive and don't think I learned from it is the day I'll know I'm dangerous and it's time to quit. And like you, I sure hope that day never comes.
Rick

 

[Rick Murchison]

Originally posted by CAMPER
Boy, does this sound a lot like the arguments we used to have in grade school, Grease VS Surf.

The terminology is really getting in the way of some important discussions.

Ed B

ps. I was always a surf and will be till the day I die!!

Great day! Another place I'm ignorant. Will they never end? I hope not...
What's a "Grease" and what's a "Surf?"
Rick

 

[Lost Yooper]

Careful Rick. I might take you up on that someday .

Seriously, I am not a die hard, strict DIRer like some of those nutt cases down in Florida. I think they are right, and I think DIR as they practice it will work exceedingly well for virtually any diving environment. I consider myself about 90% DIR -- partly because I haven't finished getting there, and partly because I don't subscribe to 100% of their ideology (not that it isn't right, though).

I dive with a relatively small group of divers (less than 4) and only one is as DIR as I am -- my primary buddy. For me to dive with someone I am not familiar with on an advanced dive they would have to share the core DIR beliefs and gear configuration:

No deep air
BP/wing configuration
DIR hose config.
Strict buddy team
No convulations or gimmicks
Etc.

Part of what I like about DIR is the discipline it requires of the team members. Technical diving has a lot to do with discipline, and I think DIR helps achieve part of this. Personally, I don't have a problem with some personnal preferrence as long as the basics are there in both gear and attitude. I take my advanced dives pretty seriously -- maybe more than most, I don't know. While we do have a blast underwater, there is always a sense of discipline.

It is extremely comforting to know in the back of your mind that the person you are diving with is configured as you are, thinking as you are, and is a team player. I think this will pay out if a real mess comes up in a silt out situation in 200'+ water. This is one of the beauties of DIR because if I were to go on vacation to do some advanced diving, I know that I could hook up with guys like Roakey and UP and hardly have to skip a beat. The gear and, equally important, the mindset would be similar, if not the same. This is cool to me and quite comforting.

Anyway, Rick, I've been around here for quite a while, and I suspect you are as DIRish (if not more so) as I am when you're doing your cave dives. Don't be surprised if I show up on your door step someday -- though I think you cave divers are just plain crazy .

Take care.

Mike

 

[dc4bs]

So far, a stroke...

Well, I've started to convert bits of gear and diving style over to DIR setups as I learn more about it and come to understand why each change is better than the old way I did something.

As I understand it, changing gear setup to DIR without understanding why is just as stroky as using the wrong gear/setup in the first place.

There is an instructor at my LDS who keeps bugging me about getting my divemaster rating as I have more dives/experience/specialties than many of the divemasters at the shop.

BUT... He says I have to convert my gear back to "standard" configuration before he'd let me NEAR any of his students... Lucky for me, I have no desire to be a divemaster.

He thinks I'm stupid for using the long hose for every dive. He's convinced a wave is going to get me tangled up during a beach entry/exit or something. I dunno. I like it and havn't had a single problem even when I have been hammered by waves.

I think it's just cause when HE tried diving with it, he had dificulties and didn't like it. He's been diving so long that any change at all is like moving a mountan.

I bought all my gear, including the "ofensive" stuff, through the shop so that's not an issue.

So far the fin-springs are the only thing he does like. He's not 100% sure yet though and THEY are the only thing I dive that is NOT carried by my LDS. Go figure.

 

[SDAnderson]

What is a stroke is probably a good question to be resolved. In common usage these days, it would seem to mean anyone who is not DIR compliant.

Given that definition, I'm a stroke.

If the definition is unsafe diver, who's to say? After more than 30 years and umpteen dives, I've never been hurt with the exception of one "maybe" incident of sub-clinical DCS years ago. Empirically, I'm a safe diver.

Beyond that, I don't let ANYONE set my standards for me, ever, and I try to continue to learn and improve.

Just sign me: back STROKE

 

[AquaTec]

just a circle jerk here - or sorry was that a stroke.
I am definetly a stroke, just ask any DIR die hard

Rick Murchison had some good points here
He is open minded enough that he can dive with other strokes.

non strokes only dive with non strokes

I am somewere in the middle. I only dive with people who share my Phylosiphy, I am fairly strick about that.

My philosophy ?? some DIR, some IANTD, some TDI, some PADI, some 30 years experience, some NAVY brat, some from right here, some from dive buddies or other teams that I respect that I acualy dive with. basicly it isn't something someone told me I need to beleive, it is what I have absorbed from many different sourses and then have applied in the real world. this ends up with me diving with a team who we all have the same common denominator.

Picking dive team members becomes vital, and then building on that team with each dive.

I am flexible with their dive gear however, with the same considerations as Rick pointed out.
My thinking here is I dive every dive as if I am by myself, I am self suficiant. My dive team mate dives the same way.

Beacause we know each others gear configurations etc. if for some reason we can not solve a problem on our own then our team mate is there. but thats the same as dialing 911, its not avoided but left for emergencies.

If for example I was a strict DIR diver [or any other] I would not simply jump in the water with them just because they wore the same brand name on their c card as i do. I would go through the same process as rick discribed. and make the same judgment call i do with every diver i get in the water with.

Grease and Surf! you must be from California [highschool talk]
grease is someone who is in auto shop and likes muscle cars etc.
surf is someone who spends most of their time at or in the ocean, diving, surfing, etc.

Growing up in Hawaii, driving Maui cruzers [$200.00 car] around and diving [$1,000.00 gear] or surfing [$500.00 board] every day. I was definatly a surf

just getting in on the chat, trying tio catch up on the several topics being discused

ps Natasha what a babe!! i didn't even notice your date