Are Suunto Zoops super conservative?

[dmaziuk]

I have been using Suunto computers for over 20 years now and this is what happens when you drop below 20'/6m for a short time and then go back up above the safety stop floor of 20'/6m. It may reset the clock back to zero if you drop below the safety stop floor for an extended time period (I don't recall what it is) but that is a good thing.

...The Zoop doesn't seem to "start the safety stop timer" until she's right at 15' whereas my TX-1 starts timing at 19'. Also the time allowed for any depth variance seems to be less and resets her counter (so if she drifts down to 20' from 15' for more than ~5-10 seconds without paying close attention and coming back up, it fusses and resets her 3 minute timer.

Dunno about the zoop, my leonardo won't even show the timer if you spend enough time at 7 m or above. Come straight up to 3 m and it will show the SS timer and reset as described if you're bouncing between 3 and 6 metres. Follow the bottom to the beach slowly enough and the 3/3 icon won't ever come up.

 

[scubadada]

I think that it is more like: 30/75 to be precise

You very well might be right, I only dive my Buhlmann computer against my DSAT computer. The 2017 ScubaLab testing, that included 40/85, did not include any Suunto computers, just Mares and Cressi.

 

[scbaNE2179]

This is a reason to consider using a backup that has the same or very similar algorithm to your primary because this would then defeat the purpose of a backup if you end up benching it and then actually needing it because something happened with your primary. I dive a Vyper Air and my backup is a 3 button Zoop that I picked up for $100. It's perfect because they both agree with each other.

Yeah, I agree having a 2 computers with completely diff algo kind of defeats this purpose but I'm not about to spend another 1k on a dive computer just to have it as a backup. So the workaround? I got an Oceanic BUD as a "backup" to my Petrel. Still different algo, but at least it's a little less conservative than my Suunto. Plus with any Oceanic I can at least switch to one of the 2 built in algorithms.

 

[scbaNE2179]

You very well might be right, I only dive my Buhlmann computer against my DSAT computer. The 2017 ScubaLab testing, that included 40/85, did not include any Suunto computers, just Mares and Cressi.

What's the algo with Mares units? I think Cressi uses RGBM like Suunto?

 

[Snoweman]

I bought the Zoop when I was first certified. The only reason I am not pissed at the dive shop that recommended it is that it stalled me from buying another computer until the Shearwater Perdix Ai came out. The Zoop is still attached to my octo, so I have a comparison between the two computers. The Zoop is SUPER conservative. A dive operator in Grand Cayman time set my Zoop to 32% Nitrox after he helped me connect my Perdix to its transmitter. My Perdix conservatism has been set to "low", but I have since changed it to "medium". My Zoop still puts me in deco, even when the Perdix says I have 10 more minutes.

To some of the other responders: The OP was following the dive profiles of his dive buddies. While I don't condone ignoring a primary computer, he was not just diving willy nilly. He was following a computer, but not his own. I had wanted to ignore my Zoop prior to getting the Perdix, but just can't get away from following the rules.

Also, if you know the Zoop is super conservative and know how it will act in different modes, I don't see any problem with changing the gas in order to fool it into a more liberal dive profile. I would never set my Perdix to liberal and Nitrox 32% when I am diving on air. However, as stated above, my "fooled" Zoop still puts me in deco when my Perdix has plenty left on it. A dive master did it to mine. He also owns a dive company. I'm pretty sure he would not put his company at risk if he thought the Zoop would now endanger my diving.

 

[scubadada]

Yeah, I agree having a 2 computers with completely diff algo kind of defeats this purpose but I'm not about to spend another 1k on a dive computer just to have it as a backup. So the workaround? I got an Oceanic BUD as a "backup" to my Petrel. Still different algo, but at least it's a little less conservative than my Suunto. Plus with any Oceanic I can at least switch to one of the 2 built in algorithms.

DSAT is among the most liberal of rec deco algorithms. In general, it matches a GF hi of about 95. Of course, it's really not quite that simple.

 

[scubadada]

What's the algo with Mares units? I think Cressi uses RGBM like Suunto?

Suunto, Mares, and Cressi all use a proprietary version of RGBM. The mechanism of implementation is a whole other discussion. See related posts by @RonR from Atomic

 

[outofofficebrb]

To some of the other responders: The OP was following the dive profiles of his dive buddies. While I don't condone ignoring a primary computer, he was not just diving willy nilly. He was following a computer, but not his own. I had wanted to ignore my Zoop prior to getting the Perdix, but just can't get away from following the rules.

Also, if you know the Zoop is super conservative and know how it will act in different modes, I don't see any problem with changing the gas in order to fool it into a more liberal dive profile. I would never set my Perdix to liberal and Nitrox 32% when I am diving on air. However, as stated above, my "fooled" Zoop still puts me in deco when my Perdix has plenty left on it. A dive master did it to mine. He also owns a dive company. I'm pretty sure he would not put his company at risk if he thought the Zoop would now endanger my diving.

While you may be following your buddies and diving a similar profile, there can be some discrepancies because it's not going to be 100% the same - a little more jigsaw, slightly faster ascents, etc. or their residual nitrogen from previous diving versus yours - and that might only become an issue or a significant factor when one is close to NDL. There are some aspects that may make the following diver more susceptible to the bends (age, condition, having had bends before, etc.) that your buddy may not be accounting for in their dive computer because it does not apply to them. There is a larger conversation and discussion about that if that is the plan but I won't go into detail with it here. I know the OP did not do this, but it is also easy to follow someone else's dive profile when it is convenient and then use the computer when it is convenient to do that. The inconsistency can create more of a nuisance, especially if the computer is going to be locked out. Even if you pick back up once it has been unlocked, you still do not account for the residual nitrogen unless it has been a solid 24 hours since your last dive, just to be safe. It sounds like a possible disaster waiting to happen and the downside far outweighs the marginal benefit. If you don't agree with your computer or like the algorithm and how conservative it is, get a new computer.

I think owning a dive company does not necessarily make someone's actions or decisions the right or smartest one. Each diver is certified and should know the implications of doing something like this. I would not do this for myself or let anyone I cared about to do it that way and I would strongly urge that they get a new computer with a more favorable algorithm if that is the case. There are possible undesirable outcomes from setting a computer to nitrox when you are diving air depending on the diver and the situation, dives, etc.

In a nutshell, all this is not worth all the possible negative things that can happen. One minor problem can snowball into a larger problem because you lost track of something or thought it would be okay, etc. etc. etc. Having to go out of our way to fool a computer to get a desired outcome seems silly and defeats the purpose of having a computer there to tell us what we should be doing. Just buy a new computer. It's easy as that. If you can't afford it - well, it's an expensive hobby, yes...Either be okay with it, or just do it and don't look back but it's also your life. I'm pretty sure it's worth at least that.

 

[outofofficebrb]

Yeah, I agree having a 2 computers with completely diff algo kind of defeats this purpose but I'm not about to spend another 1k on a dive computer just to have it as a backup. So the workaround? I got an Oceanic BUD as a "backup" to my Petrel. Still different algo, but at least it's a little less conservative than my Suunto. Plus with any Oceanic I can at least switch to one of the 2 built in algorithms.

Totally understandable. It's a chunk. There must be less expensive computers that run similar or the same algorithms; it doesn't necessarily have to be the exact same thing? Or, even something used on top of that.

 

[dmaziuk]

To some of the other responders: The OP was following the dive profiles of his dive buddies. While I don't condone ignoring a primary computer, he was not just diving willy nilly. He was following a computer, but not his own.

If you run your same grocery basket through two checkouts and one charges you 25 bucks while the other says shop owes you $15, you know there is something wrong with that picture. Like, OP is a troll who hasn't been seen in this thread since it started it.

Following somebody else's computer is really dumb idea. Unless it's your perma-buddy and you were very close on all the preceding dives, in which case if your computer craps out it's probably OK to finish the dive on your buddy's.

I had wanted to ignore my Zoop prior to getting the Perdix, but just can't get away from following the rules.

Yeah, that scuba police is a real stern biatch.