are people really this clueless???

[Hoyden]

IRL, you won't be diving EAN29, but EAN32 or EAN36 and you can remember the MOD for those. It doesn't excuse being unable to use a formula, but most divers don't ever use the fomulas after the class.

In this area most shops only bank EAN 32 or EAN 36, but you can get pretty much any mix you want by topping off with air. Why dive a less than optimal mix? Plus, it is not uncommon to end up with mixes that are off a little. What if you travel and visit an area where the standard mix is something else (like EAN30 in NC)? Or say you are out on a boat and find that you have a short fill. The mate offers to use to top you off with air - you need to be able to do the math or carry a cheat sheet.

And you can get EAN28 anywhere that can pump EAN32 and air if you can do a little math and ask nice.

JMO,

Jackie

 

[do it easy]

I don't care. I would dive strange mixes (even 80% for deco) if I could get them. But you aren't gong to DIE because you can't remember the formula to the MOD because you're going to be mostly diving EAN32 and EAN36 because most shops bank those mixes. My EAD table has MODs for 22 to 36% and I mostly use that to look up an odd one.

OK , I think I get your point. I kinda of agree- for the average (32/36) recreational user, the formulas aren't as important. Knowing how to use an analyzer and adjust the computer would be better skills to learn.

That being said, I would have more confidence in a buddy that knew how to work the formulas.

 

[EvilSlumLord]

IRL, you won't be diving EAN29, but EAN32 or EAN36 and you can remember the MOD for those. It doesn't excuse being unable to use a formula, but most divers don't ever use the fomulas after the class.

Perhaps but that isn't my point. They hand you the formula in the question (you don't even have to try to remember it!) and the data that has to go into it. All you have to know (in the case of the MOD formula) is that EANx29 means to use 0.29 in the formula. And yet the teen was STILL not able to come up with the answer. It's not like we are talking about differential equations or something like that. This is pretty basic math. I'm not a math snob but when we are talking about stuff that can affect whether you (or your buddy) come back up from a dive, I think it is important you can do the basic work whether you ever actually have to use it or not. One never knows when these things will be needed.

As it turns out, for the nitrox dives we did for the class, we actually did use EANx29 (don't ask me why, just what the LDS decided to give us). And, as other have pointed out, EANx32 or EANx36 don't cover all profiles you might want to dive.

Note, I am also a bit biased by the fact I did the OW cert with this same team and it felt like the teen was just barely able to pass there too (with not insignificant assistance from the adult along the way). That's something I'd say the instructor should have flagged (and in the nitrox/AOW I just completed with them the instructor DID separate them using a couple of DMs to ensure the adult wasn't carrying the teen through the dives).

 

[TheRedHead]

And you can get EAN28 anywhere that can pump EAN32 and air if you can do a little math and ask nice.

No, Jackie, you can't get it in a lot of places. You get on a boat and there is EAN32 usually. You don't go to the Dive Shop before diving. I don't dive often in the US. I could request it in Florida I'm sure, but it is a PITA in Cozumel.

 

[rookers]

I have seen this a couple of times (AOW, Nitrox). It's really annoying if you have put the work in.

 

[TheRedHead]

That being said, I would have more confidence in a buddy that knew how to work the formulas.

Doing all the formulas in Advanced Nitrox and then using EAD to dive the Navy tables gave me a lot of confidence in those profiles. :lol:

 

[Ber Rabbit]

So a question for the instructors...I imagine it would make you pretty nervous about taking someone under water who was unable to follow instructions to do homework. Have you ever turned someone away? I guess I'm just interested in the other end of all this - it's not just rudeness, a student who comes to a scuba class unprepared jeopardizes the learning experience and potentially the safety of the other students.

It was pretty clear in my head that what I was learning in open water was designed to keep me alive...even so we had one student in my class who insisted on doing the knowledge reviews in the book first to avoid having to actually read all of the material. How do you handle this situation? Do you feel pressure from your employers to push the student through the course anyway, or is the call up to you whether or not to let them dive?

If they aren't ready they don't dive. I don't slow my classroom down for those who are unprepared and since my class is pass/fail if you don't get 80% or better on your exam as well as your attendance and homework you fail. That's clearly spelled out in my syllabus for the class. The university has an attendance policy for "phys ed" classes and they will back me up on failing you for attendance.

I've had students say they do the scuba homework before the homework for other classes they are taking because you don't die if you don't understand the psych/history/english/etc homework. My quizzes are not multiple choice they are short answer/essay and you can bet the questions people usually have problems with will show up in some form on successive quizzes.
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[Damselfish]

Maybe it's rare for most people to use the formulas in real life, but it's not exactly rocket science. If someone can't figure this out at all, I'd be wondering what else they don't have a grip on.

 

[Swan1172]

I just had the same thing happen in my Nitrox class, except that the guy that missed all of the math questions was much older. He came to class reasonably prepared, but just could not get the tables and the calculations. He literally left all of the math problems blank when he handed the test in. The instructor graded the test and the guy got everything else right and needed to get at least two of the math questions right to pass. The instructor handed the test back to him and told him to guess. He must have guessed well, because he got three of the math problems correct and passed.

I agree that diving is not a place for letting people squeak by, epecially when you are dealing with making some simple calculations that can mean the difference between safely diving and having an accident. What was really bad is that this guy didn't even own a dive computer, so he couldn't even make the argument that knowing how to calculte MODs wasn't all that important.

 

[rookers]

The instructor handed the test back to him and told him to guess. He must have guessed well, because he got three of the math problems correct and passed.

Wow. From now on, I will put the letters 'A-Z' up and after each dive throw a dart at it to get my group. It must be right, because the instructor lets me guess.