lemke
Contributor
Yeah, that's another issue... "cave fills". I read somewhere (at least I think I did), that if you are pulled over with tanks in your vehicle, and they are substantially overfilled, you can be fined. Can anyone confirm this?
Are hydros really necessary?
- Thread starter yle
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Does anyone have first hand experience being pulled over and receiving a fine for a tank in their possession? Do police officers have jurisdiction to ticket in that case? Do they receive training to inspect cylinders and are they carrying pressure gauges to ensure that contents are within acceptable ranges?
Feels like a red herring to me.
Wow, what a great response! I am sure that there were quite a few investors in one of Benrie Madoff's funds that said the same thing: 'I have figured out that this is a Ponzi scheme. But, if I can figure it out, so can anyone else, so I have no obligation to point anything out to anyone else. I am going to pull a Pontius Pilot and wash my hands. I am not going to say anything. Of course, I am DEFINITELY not going to say anything until I get MY money out of it.' I think this is very much like someone who goes to an auto repair shop, gets scammed, and says. ' I have no obligation to protect future customers of the shop.' Or, what if I walk into a bank to use an ATM machine in the lobby, and I happen to see a man in a mask standing in front of a teller's window, pointing a gun at the teller? I cannot say for an absolute fact that a robbery is in progress. I guess I have no obligation to report that to the police because, after all, the original intent of my entry into the bank was simply to make an ATM withdrawal?
The thread responses have made an important point - the failure to comply with hydro regulations (recommendations / whatever) is one issue, but it is actually not as big as a possible indication of a broader behavioral problem. So, if they are that sloppy with hydros, are they that sloppy with other equipment maintenance? What about regulators? What if a customer rents a regulator from a sloppy operation, but also rents a cylinder actually in hydro? The regulator fails, and the customer dies, but they have a valid hydro on their cylinder. Thank goodness. You should feel really good about that.
Is this what it means to be a dive 'professional'? I am not one, so maybe I misunderstand the concept. Or, maybe it is just what it means to be a PADI dive professional. I hope that is not the case.
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Scared Silly
Contributor
I'm not sure what being a dive professional has to do with anything. There's no coursework I've seen from any of the agencies I've done professional level training with that addresses my personal responsibilities to how an operator maintains their equipment, no instruction on how to repair regulators or maintain tanks, no instruction on how to operate compressors or perform fills.
I've learned those things, but they're not part of the dive professionals' curriculum.
From what I can recall, my training indicated that tanks need to be visually inspected every year and hydro'd every 5. I don't recall there being a recursive action for what to do when you encounter a tank that isn't and I certainly don't recall ever being instructed on how to remedy that for another diver.
Scared Silly
Contributor
Part of being a professional is a desire to make your industry be honest. When it comes to the scuba industry there is so much excrement when it comes to cylinders and equipment servicing it is no long funny but down right sad. As I noted the OP and his son are part of the industry and their looking the other way is part of the problem.
It has to do with the behavior of the OP. Like I said, maybe I misunderstand the concept of a 'dive professional', although I do see that term bandied about by a lot of instructors, as some kind of 'badge of honor'. But, maybe the term 'dive professional' is completely meaningless, maybe it is a joke, and an instructor can turn a blind eye to anything they choose to, and simply let others beware / take their chances.
Pretty sure it simply means "someone who tries to make money in diving" and nothing more. OP simply decided he wasn't the mythical scuba police.
---------- Post added July 23rd, 2014 at 02:55 PM ----------
Do they have the warrant (or probable cause in some jurisdictions) to even search your vehicle to find that you have tanks in your car? That should have to happen before you even need to bother deciding if they have the training and equipment necessary to determine you are overfilled. After they get the warrant, equipment, and training.. is it even actually illegal?
Personally, I don't think I'd knowingly dive tanks well out of hydro. That said, I've never checked the hydro stamp on a rental tank so I wouldn't have known.
captain
Contributor
Throwing out the issue of bad alloy tanks, lets assume the tanks in question are either steel or later 6061 aluminum. Assume said tanks have been owned, filled and internally inspected but not rehydroed since new, basicly a complete history of the tanks, they were never exposed to excessive heat or overpressured. Lets also acknowledge that a hydro over pressures a tank. So now what constitutes a danger. We know tank life is virtually unlimited if all the conditions that can cause damage are eliminated, we know that repeated hydros theoretically have the potential to shorten tank life from repeated overpressure but again it usually doesn't.
So other than the legal ramifications what are the dangers.
In the OP's case his knowledge of how the dive op maintains their tanks amounts to they didn't hydro the tanks, but he doesn't know anything else, he doesn't know if they were internally inspected every year, every 6 months or never.
My point being getting a tank hydroed every 5 years is no guarantee of anything if the yearly inspections aren't done and doing yearly inspections without doing hydros may very well be just as safe or more so.
So other than the legal ramifications what are the dangers.
In the OP's case his knowledge of how the dive op maintains their tanks amounts to they didn't hydro the tanks, but he doesn't know anything else, he doesn't know if they were internally inspected every year, every 6 months or never.
My point being getting a tank hydroed every 5 years is no guarantee of anything if the yearly inspections aren't done and doing yearly inspections without doing hydros may very well be just as safe or more so.
Bob DBF
Contributor
That is why terms Dive and Professional are, at best, tenuously held together because the the holder of that certification might get paid. Actual professionals hold a licence and are legally and ethically bound to to bring illegal and unethical behavior in their profession to the attention of their governing authority or risk losing their licence. I am not suggesting that the OP should broadcast the information on Scubaboard, but dropping an email to DOT and describing the facts, as you see them, would be in order as this is not the usual situation and may be both dangerous and illegal. At that point the proper authority could find out what is actually going on and take the proper actions, as it is a bunch of Scubaboard members are churned up to no good end.
Bob
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