Are hydros really necessary?

[captain]

You'd be surprised what the Texas State Troopers can do. I've seen them on the side of the highway with portable scales weighing a vehicle and trailer before.

There are other laws they enforce you don't think about such as how you transport portable diesel or gasoline tanks, trailer widths, blah blah blah.

I have no first hand experience about "tank checks" but I swore I read it somewhere... oh well, carry on!

Were they commercial vehicles or private vehicles.

 

[Luis H]

Is air or even nitrox a hazardous material?

When it is under pressure, yes it is.
Both, by definition per CFR and from a technical point of view.
There is no question that they are considered hazardous material when they are under high pressure.

 

[captain]

Is air or even nitrox a hazardous material?

When compressed they are. They then have stored energy just as an explosive does.

 

[oldschoolto]

I just don't get all the problems people have over the hydro testing... I've seen tanks with so many Hydro stamps, There's no more room...

1: Hydro testing does " NOT HURT " the tank...
2: Hydro testing has been / is the way to understand the state of the cylinders metal
3: Hydro testing is not a large cost to pay
4: Hydro testing is the standard used by the compressed gas industry and found to be very effective

So... To not test tanks is " STUPID " and The very people that I find not testing are the ones " cave filling " the cylinders...

Jim..

 

[kwinter]

Mostly you are taking the tank out of service for a week or so. Add in the cost and other inconvenience and you can see why it might get skipped. And I do think that stressing the metal does affect its properties, albeit very slight. It's the same argument used against constant overfilling of LP tanks and whether that shortens its life due to metal fatigue.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

 

[akdeepdiver]

Is air or even nitrox a hazardous material?

By law (49 CFR), any compressed gas that has a pressure of 40 PSI or higher is considered Hazardous Materials.

---------- Post added July 24th, 2014 at 07:07 AM ----------

My understanding of the quoted section is that if you transport an out of hydro cylinder, it is supposed to be empty, and I realize none of these regs were really intended for recreational scuba divers. Here is the wikipedia page for class 2.2 hazardous materials, which is a good synopsis of the CFR section I used above: HAZMAT Class 2 Gases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. It would also seem to indicate that we are all supposed to have placards whenever we have scuba tanks in our cars, and separate ones for O2. I can't recall ever seeing someone with the correct placard.

As to penalties, they are listed under the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act:
Civil and Criminal
Again, I'm not saying it is a major risk violating any of this on its own, but if someone were to come after you for something else, I could see violations used to prove you acted negligently and/or recklessly, and then the DOT might decide to get some easy money out of you.

Placards are only required when the transported HAZMAT exceeds the "minimum reportable quantity". For non flammable/non poisonous compressed gasses the minimum reportable quantity is 1000lbs combined weight of HAZMAT and packaging. For example, this equals approximately 28 filled AL80 tanks. The number will vary depending on if you are carrying steel tanks, composite cylinders, pony bottles, or a combination of all of the above. Dive shops would have to then placard the vehicle with a Class 2 Nonflammable gas placard, and if carrying O2 bottles or Nitrox also placard with a Class 2 Oxygen placard. Depending on state regulations, the transporting entity will also be regulated on what documentation, and drivers license they need.

For quantities of air/nitrox/O2 under 1000lbs (combined weight of HAZMAT and packaging) placarding is not required.

See 49 CFR, Part 172, Subpart F for complete placarding regulations.

 

[Skooter]

Not that you'd want to pay to litigate the issue, but the "as required" is sloppy drafting by your insurance company's lawyers, unless the "requirement" is spelled out elsewhere in the policy.

I completely agree but thats not a battle I plan on fighting. I will follow industry standard and require annual visual inspections and hydrotest at 5 years unless marked differently on the cylinder, CFR, or special permit exemptions. That is the best CYA I can come up with.

 

[yle]

Thanks again to everyone that replied, I do appreciate the advice. Unlike some people posting here, I am very willing to admit that I am not familiar with local procedures, formal and informal, in every part of the country.

To those claiming that I just "looked the other way", am being hypocritical and unprofessional, and that in general I am failing to act on my duty to notify the appropriate people about this situation: you are way off base, and the fact that you have attacked me personally in this forum says a lot about your character.

If some of you thought I should have created a big commotion over the out-of-hydro tanks on the day I saw them, I will respectfully disagree. I suspected (as many of you have confirmed) that this was a serious violation of safety standards, as I know it is on the west coast where I live and teach. So before acting on what I found, I thought I should take a few days to gather information and act accordingly.

My plan was to:

1. Solicit advice from those with more experience around the country by posting here. This has been accomplished.

2. Notify those that need to be notified.

I still stand by my earlier post, when I claimed I was not withholding any "secret" information. Anyone looking at those tanks can see the same thing I see. If others aren't educated or trained properly to recognize hydro dates (really?? all my students know this... you look right at the hydro when attaching a reg) that really is not something I can fix.

In addition, we did do something right away: we informed two crew members, showed them the several tanks that we found out of hydro. To those of you that want more from me... are you suggesting I should go back to the shop and watch them inventory their tanks, and then personally supervise the hydro testing of all their tanks? The shop employees were informed.

If this shop is a PADI shop, I will drop PADI an email regarding the situation. I'll do it when I get home this weekend. I know some of you are going to respond "but what if someone DIES in the next couple days?!?!? You could be a defendant!! You could have saved a LIFE!" And if that's you... I would recommend you just work on getting a grip on reality.

To those of you suggesting I was turning my back on the situation: you must smoke the really expensive weed. You posted in response to my original post. I was acting, just cautiously. Maybe that's not something you can appreciate. Maybe you're the kind of person that prefers to post every detail about your life all over facebook and complain to the world about every little thing. I'm not that way. I recognized this as a potentially serious situation and so I took appropriate steps (see steps 1 and 2 above). If I post the name of the shop (which I know is driving many of you crazy, and that's find. Hopefully you'll find a way to move on.) I know the internet has a way of turning that kind of information into something far worse than the original situation.

If I'm not moving fast enough for some of you, I sincerely apologize. I'm on vacation. I've been diving a lot the past week. I don't spend my days on scubaboard. I check in here every couple days to read the advice and insults that you've deemed appropriate to post.

So again, thank you for responding. I'll take care of this by contacting the appropriate people.

 

[BRT]

I've dove AL80's in Mexico that were 20 years out of hydro and showed every one of those years. The only risk I was worried about was debris in the tank clogging the valve. Would I stand beside them while they were filled? No!

 

[yle]

Thanks BRT for the laugh!

To all that are interested, PADI has been notified. It's been 48 hours since I first found the tanks at issue (we dove Tuesday morning, it's now Thursday). Hopefully that response time is quick enough to at least partially restore my reputation.

All I ask in return is that everyone that got upset over this issue just relax, let your blood pressure settle, and hey... maybe go for a dive (with a tank in hydro.) I have one more to go before flying home.