Are dive computers making bad divers?

[boulderjohn]

I feel like most ppl forget the tables are made with decent safety factors.

Tables are made in accordance to algorithms that have been studied to varying degrees, depending upon the algorithm. The DSAT tables and the Buhlmann tables were studied extensively while they were being devised. Those same algorithms are used in computers. You can find both DSAT and Buhlmann on modern computers.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

Does the use of GPS, Radar and Sonar make boaters bad boaters? No. But it is still a good idea to understand and implement basic compass, charts and dead reckoning in case the electronic crutch ever fails.

Also, when using dive tables in lieu of a computer, a timer or watch is needed......so even with tables you are still relying on mechanical "technology" to determine limits.

As a retired instructor, I still think it is valuable and important to teach tables because it serves to instill and reinforce the importance of no deco limits and helps folks to understand the importance of understanding the basic concepts of nitrogen loading.

 

[boulderjohn]

As a retired instructor, I still think it is valuable and important to teach tables because it serves to instill and reinforce the importance of no deco limits and helps folks to understand the importance of understanding the basic concepts of nitrogen loading.

This point is brought up frequently.

Most instructors probably taught decompression theory at the same time they taught tables, and so they lump the two concepts together. There is no reason, however, that decompression theory can't be taught effectively without needing to use tables. Mark Powell wrote an entire book on decompression theory and never once taught how to use tables. When I taught OW classes, I took a good, long time teaching decompression theory early in the class. I made sure students understood it, because it is important. In those first years, I later taught them how to use the tables to manage decompression. In later years, I showed them how to use a computer to manage decompression.

I don't know how other agencies do it, but PADI has a computer simulator that allows you to move a generic computer through any dive scenario you want, showing how the computer monitors ongassing and offgassing.

 

[RIHappyDiver]

I want to go off topic for a moment, yet to the heart of the situation at hand. I find it absolutely amazing that bfw (see post #357, page 36) can show up on SB as a troll every 2-5 years and it can cause 6 additional pages of discussion in 2 days on a thread that has been dead for 6 years. And this isn't the only thread he has trolled, though with lesser impact.
ABSOLUTELY.....AMAZING!

Erik

 

[BRT]

Does the use of GPS, Radar and Sonar make boaters bad boaters? No. But it is still a good idea to understand and implement basic compass, charts and dead reckoning in case the electronic crutch ever fails.

Also, when using dive tables in lieu of a computer, a timer or watch is needed......so even with tables you are still relying on mechanical "technology" to determine limits.

As a retired instructor, I still think it is valuable and important to teach tables because it serves to instill and reinforce the importance of no deco limits and helps folks to understand the importance of understanding the basic concepts of nitrogen loading.

Difference is, if your GPS quits you can continue by following maps and a compass. If your computer quits when you already have 30 minutes with a max depth of 110 feet you have to bail.

 

[crofrog]

Yes. They’re certainly allowing lazy instructors to be lazier and the divers to not understand basic stuff.

 

[Fishdip]

You said you and your boys plan each dive with the tables. I am asking you to do that. To make it clear, just answer the first following questions in order using your tables.

1. What tables are you using?
2. The first dive is planned to 103 feet. According to your tables, what is the maximum time for a dive at that depth?
3. If you do the maximum time on that dive, what will your maximum time be for a second dive to 82 feet after a surface interval of 1:15?
4. Add your two maximum times together. How do they compare to my combined time of 169 minutes?

Umm that was a different user lol. I just wanted to play the game.

 

[Fishdip]

You said you and your boys plan each dive with the tables. I am asking you to do that. To make it clear, just answer the first following questions in order using your tables.

1. What tables are you using?
2. The first dive is planned to 103 feet. According to your tables, what is the maximum time for a dive at that depth?
3. If you do the maximum time on that dive, what will your maximum time be for a second dive to 82 feet after a surface interval of 1:15?
4. Add your two maximum times together. How do they compare to my combined time of 169 minutes?

I would use them depending on what 32 or 36?

 

[Fishdip]

This point is brought up frequently.

Most instructors probably taught decompression theory at the same time they taught tables, and so they lump the two concepts together. There is no reason, however, that decompression theory can't be taught effectively without needing to use tables. Mark Powell wrote an entire book on decompression theory and never once taught how to use tables. When I taught OW classes, I took a good, long time teaching decompression theory early in the class. I made sure students understood it, because it is important. In those first years, I later taught them how to use the tables to manage decompression. In later years, I showed them how to use a computer to manage decompression.

I don't know how other agencies do it, but PADI has a computer simulator that allows you to move a generic computer through any dive scenario you want, showing how the computer monitors ongassing and offgassing.

Whats the book name?

 

[BlueTrin]

Difference is, if your GPS quits you can continue by following maps and a compass. If your computer quits when you already have 30 minutes with a max depth of 110 feet you have to bail.

If your plan is to bail on computer failure and you do not do deco, I don’t see the problem with that?