Are dive computers making bad divers?

[boulderjohn]

That was exactly the point I was trying to make. If I check the computer and see remaining allowable bottom time of 15 minutes (for example) and then check my computer 2 minutes later and see that it has failed, I know that I have 13 minutes before I need to worry about deco. I don't dive those 13 minutes at depth; I take less than 1 minute to signal my buddy that my computer has failed and we begin our ascent. We finish the diver earlier than planned, but I can be certain that I am not over my NDL for that dive.

Diving without tables & a timer with me doesn't make me less safe. Being a safe diver means I'm using the equipment I have properly and safely.

Yes--I hope it was clear that my first sentence was ironic, and I was actually agreeing with you.

 

[drrich2]

[h=2]Are dive computers making bad divers?[/h]

To answer your question, we need to establish some things.

1.) What divers are we talking about? Avid divers, such as post often on Scuba Board? 'Vacation Divers,' also frequent on Scuba Board, who often go several months between 'dive binges' on trips? What about casual vacation divers, who dive once every couple of years or so, such as on a cruise?

2.) Bad relative to what? Are we comparing to what the dive hobby would presumably be like if dive computers didn't exist? If so, and the computers are considered a negative, are we assuming...

----a.) The large majority of dives are planned by the diver/buddy team (which tables seem designed for).

If so, I call B.S. A lot of modern diving is done on trips, led by guides, and the diver has only a rough idea of the dive plan (e.g.: 45 - 50 minute dive, don't get over 85 feet deep, stay with your buddy, let the guide know when you're at 1/2 tank or hit 750 PSI).

----b.) The large majority of divers trained with tables maintain proficiency with them, and will use them consistently over time.

I suspect many divers would either consider tables grossly over conservative on multi-level dives and ignore them for most rec. diving (not over 2 dives/day with at least an hour interval between, not getting over 85 feet max. depth on deeper dive (just using some figures for sake of argument)), and mainly use tables for deep dives (e.g.: offshore wrecks out of North Carolina), or do what some do now...rely on the guide to do the planning.

People who don't use tables regularly and proficiently may make serious errors. Perhaps worse than no information, it could give the diver wrong info.

I think sometimes there's a tendency to compare casual computer use to dedicated, diligent table use. Bogus! The real question is, what kind of comparative results would the same people causally using computers yield if you never let them have computers to begin with?

I think a computer is easier/more practical in terms of 'Here's your NDL; don't exceed it' usability for casual, sporadic divers, many of whom won't bother to use tables, or use them correctly.

Richard.

 

[boulderjohn]

If you don't know how to use your computer or the tables, here is probably why:

Years ago, while still teaching the table level version of the course, I had several different students in several different classes tell me the same thing. Their friends who were experienced divers told them the only reason they had to learn all that dive planning and table stuff was to pass the exam. Once they were "real divers," all their dives would be planned and led by divemasters, so there was no reason for them to use any of that stuff in their diving.

People learn what to do in their diving, go repeatedly to dive sites that do it all for them, and before long everything is forgotten.

 

[TMHeimer]

The last two posts sums up what I've been saying. We can go on and on with this, but I go back to my original post in that just jumping in with a computer (and trusting a DM/guide?) without a good understanding of theory I (that tables do provide--yes, you can study computer info. too), MAY cause problems. So, "Are computers making bad divers?" No, not computers themselves, but use of them by some divers, maybe. I almost never dive with former students who learned tables (2015) but did checkout dives with computers, so I don't know how they turned out as divers. I guess it depends on the diver.

 

[EFX]

It is becoming more and more frequent that I find myself with divers who are extremely computer dependent. .... but was never trained on tables. How many of you guys do dives without computers? For those senior divers who have been diving since before the computer revolution, do you feel that the new generation has been idiotized by computers, or no.

No. I do believe that divers should be trained to use whatever tools are necessary to complete a dive safely within the limits of their training and that includes the use of tables. Since TMHeimer says SB is getting kinda blah let me spice things up a bit.

me: why are you looking so glum? We had a great dive and the next should be just as good!

buddy: my computer crapped out so I can't dive until I get it fixed.

me: just use your spare computer.

buddy: I'm a new diver and didn't think of buying a second computer and besides, I can't afford one.

me: well then, just use a dive watch and tables.

buddy: Umm, yeah. NetDoc didn't teach me to use tables. He said they're stupid and just confuse students.

me: well, uhhh, just stay close to me and we'll dive on my computer's profile.

buddy: ummm, no I don't think so. The experts on SB say I should only dive on my own computer because our profiles will be slightly different, and besides, that would be a trust-me dive.

me: okayyyyy..... ummm.....I guess you'll have to sit out but don't feel bad for me -- I'm solo certified so I'll make this dive alone.

buddy: sitting out and waiting?!!! That's stupid.

 

[Water Boy76]

I trust my two computers and don't manually track my dive time and depths.
Call me a bad diver I guess - I really don't care.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Nice responses guys. Id also like to hear from the DIR/GUE crowd why they find it necessary to shun the use of computers.

 

[The Chairman]

buddy: Umm, yeah. NetDoc didn't teach me to use tables. He said they're stupid and just confuse students.

me: well, uhhh, just stay close to me and we'll dive on my computer's profile.

buddy: ummm, no I don't think so. The experts on SB say I should only dive on my own computer because our profiles will be slightly different, and besides, that would be a trust-me dive.

I would actually do that myself. If the computer was on the first dive and reasonably close? Why not use it? Just stick to your buddy.

If five minutes makes the difference between getting bent or not, you're diving way too close to the NDL. If you don't feel good about your decision, then don't do it. My earliest diving saw me use a red ribbon as a depth gauge and I didn't even know tables existed. My dives were never that deep and I only owned the one tank. My surface interval was the time it took to get that tank filled. Stop trying to set unreasonable goals for yourself and you probably won't get hurt.

However, I must point out that the most common PDC error is the battery. Carry an extra one or more with you. I'm here in Curacao, with two PDCs, two senders and 4 batteries. I can probably buy the batteries I need here, but I avoid the hassle by bringing my own. Then the guy with the dead PDC can probably just pop in another battery and dive normal. No probalem, mang!

 

[DiveNav]

.....me: well then, just use a dive watch and tables.......

And how do you measure your depth?

 

[NAM001]

Im probably not the person you actually want to try to answer this, but i am going to try. Computers are another thing to fail. Hit something and break it, leaky batttery oring at 200 ft, who knows. The DIR folks have a much more diciplined diving regiment. Including carefully reaserched gases that act similar and there for does not need a computer to figure out the deco. after all that is the most important part of a computer when it comes to diving:::: figuring the deco..... Every thing else is purely a matter of paying attention to your times and depths, also a diciplined set of events for dir folks. Plan your dive , dive your plan. They need to get back to the surface and that requires depth and time to start the process. The have a timer and a depth gage. from there they do ratio deco to figure the protocol to the surface. no computer is needed to get to the boat. In DIR: if you dont need it you leave it behind. The DIR heavies will probably chime in, but that is it in a nut shell. You can read up on ratio deco and see how it works. When you do that look at the depth bands gasses used and the ppo2 at max depths of each corrosponding depth band. also look at the end's of each gas and you will see how they are similar.

Nice responses guys. Id also like to hear from the DIR/GUE crowd why they find it necessary to shun the use of computers.