AQUALUNG and LEISUREPRO

[gcarter]

True, it is true that all manufacturers can have recalls and not all american companies put out a quality product. What I am saying is that FOR ME I have had really bad experiences
with products made in China. I simply don't feel like I save any money in the long run because I have to replace it sooner. I do try extremely hard to buy american when I can, sometimes it seems impossible. I will not feel ashamed in any way for that. What started this is that a lot of people complain and moan because the LDS is higher than some online store but in my experience I get alot more service and benefits than I get from online stores. I also feel that I am fortunate to have a excellent dive shop that I go to, I am sure their are some that only see you as $$$.
Online stores don't know you from your neighbor, pretty sure you are $$$ to them. I prefer to buy from authorized dealers with everything, plus I like having a person I can talk to face to face. Maybe I am old fashioned, I don't know. I fully understand about wanting to save money but people need to understand that with the way it is going if we keep outsourcing for the cheapest product, eventually there will not be anymore jobs left for you to buy that cheap product. Alot of those companies in Asia do not intevate, they copy. They just churn crap out
because they know it is hard as hell to hold them accountable over here like we can a USA or european company. I do realize that not everyones idea of quality is the same.
People can keep buying it but for me I choose to spend my money at a local shop. I gladly pay a little more for what I get in return. Maybe I am old fashioned.

That is the gist of it for me, independent of LDS or online, independent of US or Chinese manufacture.

Where a product is manufactured is generally less of an issue for quality than the company itself, and its concern for its reputation. Basic research can solve this. Some Asian companies manufacture in the US, some US companies manufacture in Asia. It isn't always clear, and it isn't always an indicator of quality.

LDS vs online? Everyone has their own cost - benefit analysis:

1) Does the LDS provide a service level that is worth the extra cost?
2) Is the price differential reasonable?
3) Are you ONLY looking for product, no advice or support?
etc.

There are a host of questions one can ask, and the answer will be very individual with no right and no wrong.

And to bring it back on point, if AL support is not a desired part of the purchase, LP can provide a good deal with gray market product. If it IS a desired part of the purchase equation, buy from an authorized source. Easy.

---------- Post added January 5th, 2014 at 11:55 PM ----------

What does location of manufacture have to do with Leisure Pro selling Aqualung products for less than Aqualung allows?

Absolutely nothing

 

[jd950]

I still prefer to support my LDS. I may be wrong but it seems like a lot of people have a deep dislike for LDS's but they provide a lot of services that some online shop can't.

I like to support local businesses also, and do so when I can. I will buy a product locally even when I can get it somewhat cheaper online. I think it is worth something to be able to touch a product, try it on, ask questions about it and so on, and I am willing to pay for that service, to a point. Some products also require setup or testing or other user-specific steps when purchased and that is something I have no problem paying for, to a point.

On the other hand, and just as an example (I am not looking to buy a BCD) Leisure pro is offering a very popular Aqualung BCD for $470.00 right now. That includes shipping and if the fit is not right Leisure Pro will pay shipping both ways to exchange it for a different size. That same BCD sells for $695.00 in the local shops. Even if they discount it the maximum allowed by AL, it is still $625.00. That $155.00 - $225 difference is very hard to justify on a BCD. If my local shop was allowed to sell that BCD for, say, $519 or maybe $529 or maybe even more, I might buy it locally, but at $625-695? Sorry, I work too hard for my money.

Additionally, the AL warranty doesn't mean much to me. It would require me to get an annual "inspection or service" of the BCD at an authorized dealer and I am not going to pay the $30.00 my LDS would charge for an annual inspection/service of a BCD. I am perfectly capable of taking care of my own BCD. So for me, and probably most people, the AL warranty on a BCD is in reality a 1 year warranty while LP offers their own repair or replace warranty for 2 years. Most AL products are warranted for 1-2 years and that warranty just isn't worth much of a premium. Even the AL "Limited Lifetime"warranty on BCDs is not what it sounds like. Read the details....

Buoyancy Compensator REPLACEMENT ON A PRO-RATED BASIS
Buoyancy Compensator under the Limited Lifetime Warranty that malfunction due to material or manufacturer defects that have also had a significant amount of use will be replaced on a pro-rated basis. Prorating will be determined by a percentage factor based on the condition of the product and how long the product was used prior to the warranty claim. This can be useful to evaluate Limited Lifetime Warranty claims since the warranty period is for the "useful life of the product" and not a set length of time. The following guidelines should be used in determining what pro-rated percentage will be used.

Pro-Rated Values for products sold at retail	Aqua Lung Pays​	Customer Pays ​
Like new and less than 2 years old	100%​	0%​
Slightly used and less than 5 years old	75%​	25%​
Very used and more than 5 years old	50%​	50%​
Worn out	0%​	100%​

Only BC's less than 24 months old and still "like new" are eligible for a free replacement. I don''t think AL should tout that "Lifetime" warranty too aggressively.

Last, despite what they say about why they won't allow online sales, you CAN buy AL stuff online with no local shop involvement. You just have to do it from AL at full retail price. According to AL, they will ship you the product directly and you can deal with their customer service reps if you have any need for help. AL will "share revenue" with the local dealer even though you never went into the store.

I actually like a lot of AL products; I just wish that they would try and compete in the market based on product quality, innovation, customer service and other such techniques instead of by using marketing and pricing games.

 

[wilbkr1]

I say buy all equipment online and allow the LDS to sell us Air for $40.00 a tank and an OW class should cost 600 - 700. That would really help the industry. I even bet more new divers would try scuba. I know the stores would love it. Just think... They wouldn't have to carry all that extra inventory for us to try on so we can go buy somewhere. We could just buy it online and when it didn't fit or we don't like it we could have them pay for shipping it back to them. That plan works really well when selecting a new mask since all our faces are the same shape. Think about the human element. Would you like to do all the work and never get paid for it because they took your effort and shopped it out to the lowest bidder? That goes for any industry. You see, I love my LDS and the people are like family there. So they always get my business.

There's an old joke that goes like this. Want to be a Millionaire in the diving industry??? Then start with Two Million.

Get it straight folks. Dive stores are going out of business everyday. Why? Because they're not making enough money to stay in business. Go figure! Rant off!

 

[BoltSnap]

I love the logic, AL is "bad" just because it chooses not to sell to LP! As if selling to LP is a measure and indication of how likable a manufacturer is for some.

 

[redacted]

I love the logic, AL is "bad" just because it chooses not to sell to LP! As if selling to LP is a measure and indication of how likable a manufacturer is for some.

No, I don't think you understand. AL does sell to LP. They just do it in such a way that they do not have to honor their warranty.

---------- Post added January 25th, 2014 at 12:01 AM ----------

I say buy all equipment online and allow the LDS to sell us Air for $40.00 a tank and an OW class should cost 600 - 700. That would really help the industry. I even bet more new divers would try scuba. I know the stores would love it. Just think... They wouldn't have to carry all that extra inventory for us to try on so we can go buy somewhere. We could just buy it online and when it didn't fit or we don't like it we could have them pay for shipping it back to them. That plan works really well when selecting a new mask since all our faces are the same shape. Think about the human element. Would you like to do all the work and never get paid for it because they took your effort and shopped it out to the lowest bidder? That goes for any industry. You see, I love my LDS and the people are like family there. So they always get my business.

There's an old joke that goes like this. Want to be a Millionaire in the diving industry??? Then start with Two Million.

Get it straight folks. Dive stores are going out of business everyday. Why? Because they're not making enough money to stay in business. Go figure! Rant off!

Atually, that probably would help the industry. Dive clubs could provide air and training on a very competitive basis and the need for inefficient local shops would be greatly reduced.

 

[gcarter]

I say buy all equipment online and allow the LDS to sell us Air for $40.00 a tank and an OW class should cost 600 - 700. That would really help the industry. I even bet more new divers would try scuba. I know the stores would love it. Just think... They wouldn't have to carry all that extra inventory for us to try on so we can go buy somewhere. We could just buy it online and when it didn't fit or we don't like it we could have them pay for shipping it back to them. That plan works really well when selecting a new mask since all our faces are the same shape. Think about the human element. Would you like to do all the work and never get paid for it because they took your effort and shopped it out to the lowest bidder? That goes for any industry. You see, I love my LDS and the people are like family there. So they always get my business.

There's an old joke that goes like this. Want to be a Millionaire in the diving industry??? Then start with Two Million.

Get it straight folks. Dive stores are going out of business everyday. Why? Because they're not making enough money to stay in business. Go figure! Rant off!

For the same types of reasons all other types of businesses go belly up every day.

SOME of those reasons are:

* Underfunded
* Poor or no business skills
* Poor or no customer service skills
* Insufficient local market
* Inadequate value proposition (including pricing, product / service mix, stocking levels)
* etc.

The reality is that SOME local shops thrive in markets where others fail miserably. Yes, in the same market.

The reality is that some shops reinvented themselves and built an online presence to supplement their local market. Some of those have grown quite large.

The reality is that many shops are owned / run by people with no business or customer service skills, who over price and under deliver, and ignorantly think that their failure is somehow the fault of their non-existent customer base. Some of these stubbornly cling on for years before pulling the plug.

The reality is that for many more, even well run shops, the best they can expect is to make a living, not to get rich. Expectation management is key.

And the reality is that some markets are just too small, and a communal / club air fill station is the best you could reasonably expect.

No business has a right to my $$$ just because they are local. They need to earn my $$$ like any other business in any other industry, and if they don't EARN it, they deserve to go belly up with nary a tear shed nor a minute of sleep lost.

 

[Edward3c]

I say buy all equipment online and allow the LDS to sell us Air for $40.00 a tank and an OW class should cost 600 - 700. That would really help the industry. I even bet more new divers would try scuba. I know the stores would love it. Just think... They wouldn't have to carry all that extra inventory for us to try on so we can go buy somewhere. We could just buy it online and when it didn't fit or we don't like it we could have them pay for shipping it back to them. That plan works really well when selecting a new mask since all our faces are the same shape. Think about the human element. Would you like to do all the work and never get paid for it because they took your effort and shopped it out to the lowest bidder? That goes for any industry. You see, I love my LDS and the people are like family there. So they always get my business.

There's an old joke that goes like this. Want to be a Millionaire in the diving industry??? Then start with Two Million.

Get it straight folks. Dive stores are going out of business everyday. Why? Because they're not making enough money to stay in business. Go figure! Rant off!

The Glasgow dive shop also sells via the Internet - and price matches. Best of both worlds.

 

[BoltSnap]

No, I don't think you understand. AL does sell to LP. They just do it in such a way that they do not have to honor their warranty.

And of course you have the proof and know this for sure. Yeah, I believe you for sure.

 

[gcarter]

And of course you have the proof and know this for sure. Yeah, I believe you for sure.

As a general statement, if a vendor of serialized product is truly interested in stopping grey market product, they can drive it down to such a trickle so as to make it meaningless, certainly below the level required to supply large volume sellers like LP.

Serialized items are traceable. They know which dealers bought those items and started them on their way through the grey market. Expel those dealers from the network. Wash, rinse, repeat. Problem will descend to noise level.

There are reasons for them not to do so, the most important of which is increased volume, with no additional pre or post sales support requirements.

 

[BoltSnap]

You think that they haven't done that? Also, one of the biggest suppliers of these grey market goods are dealers who are about to go out of business and sell this stuff to LP. They don't care about AL's policies since they are going out of business anyways. LP has a very good intelligence network and they contact these dealers even before the dealers contacts them. There is also the trick where the grey market sellers scratches the serial numbers off the goods as to make them untraceable. I have seen this trick too myself.

I know for sure that AL would cut off any dealer who violates their policies and sells to grey market sellers. They go through an investigation period to make sure that they are making the right decision and proper due diligence.