AQUALUNG and LEISUREPRO

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From the LDS perspective: We stock a fairly wide variety and multiple copies of everything so you can touch it, try it on and let us help you with your decision by understanding what we sell but, more importantly, what might be best for the individual customer. There's a lot of listening involved. I realize not everyone needs that and that's fine...but there are a lot of those who do. Those are our customers. We also take care of assembling and testing everything we sell and ask, sometimes beg, customers to get in the pool with their new gear to be sure fit, performance and expectations are met. If not, we've not done our job and need to make it good. But it sure helps to do all that before someone heads off to Cozumel or Fiji or PNG only to discover that there are issues with their gear.

Our technicians are all factory trained and certified to work on the equipment we sell (and more). LP, and some other on-line dealers, aren't and don't offer service. They also don't have a pool.:wink:

We earn our business by establishing trust and solid relationships with our customers because that's how we like to do business. I could easily open and operate an on-line store but we truly enjoy the customer interaction, hearing about dives and trips, having customers in for parties and seminars, etc. But that's all a part of the value add we have to provide in order to succeed. Thankfully, we like it.

Just a quick story, and this has only happened once: We had a couple of potential customers who spent more than 10 hours over several days with one of our staff, picking out and trying on gear. Every time they came in, they brought a different internet "package" ad asking us to match the price. Not only could we not do it, we couldn't even decipher where the prices were being cut but, the fact is, they weren't all that far off. A few days after their last visit, they came in toting their new mesh bags full of the gear they'd shopped for in our store and then bought on line, wanting to pay five dollars each to use our pool to test their stuff. I asked them if their gear came assembled and they told me no, they'd done it (and this is the first gear they've ever owned). I then asked about warranties but they weren't concerned with those (we fill out the cards or the on-line forms for our customers to make certain they get registered). Finally, I asked them how much they'd saved. "A hundred bucks!" they cheerily replied. "Where'd you get it?" I asked. I'll let everyone guess where. OK, LP. I then suggested they run up to LP and test their new gear in their pool, which, for some reason, irritated them. I then recounted all that had occurred, including all the time we'd spent with them to educate them and help them select the best choices for them, how we'd have assembled and tested their gear and, finally, provided them a pool to try their new purchases out. They told me that I was obviously not an astute businessperson (in slightly different terms--thankfully there weren't any children present) and that they'd never darken my door again--after they tried to tell me that I could not deny them access to my property so long as they paid. I found that almost amusing, but kept it to myself. They've held true to their word and that's OK. Again, we understand that we must provide added value and that some folks just don't want or need that.

Regardless, it is a difficult business at times but it is that, a business. We have to charge enough to make a profit so we can continue to provide the knowledgeable and helpful people, facilities and services we do. As well, we are contractually obligated, for the most part, to adhere to MAP pricing established by our vendors.

Anyway, that's how we do it. Seems to be working so far.
 
From the LDS perspective: We stock a fairly wide variety and multiple copies of everything so you can touch it, try it on and let us help you with your decision by understanding what we sell but, more importantly, what might be best for the individual customer. There's a lot of listening involved. I realize not everyone needs that and that's fine...but there are a lot of those who do. Those are our customers. We also take care of assembling and testing everything we sell and ask, sometimes beg, customers to get in the pool with their new gear to be sure fit, performance and expectations are met. If not, we've not done our job and need to make it good. But it sure helps to do all that before someone heads off to Cozumel or Fiji or PNG only to discover that there are issues with their gear.

Our technicians are all factory trained and certified to work on the equipment we sell (and more). LP, and some other on-line dealers, aren't and don't offer service. They also don't have a pool.:wink:

We earn our business by establishing trust and solid relationships with our customers because that's how we like to do business. I could easily open and operate an on-line store but we truly enjoy the customer interaction, hearing about dives and trips, having customers in for parties and seminars, etc. But that's all a part of the value add we have to provide in order to succeed. Thankfully, we like it.

Just a quick story, and this has only happened once: We had a couple of potential customers who spent more than 10 hours over several days with one of our staff, picking out and trying on gear. Every time they came in, they brought a different internet "package" ad asking us to match the price. Not only could we not do it, we couldn't even decipher where the prices were being cut but, the fact is, they weren't all that far off. A few days after their last visit, they came in toting their new mesh bags full of the gear they'd shopped for in our store and then bought on line, wanting to pay five dollars each to use our pool to test their stuff. I asked them if their gear came assembled and they told me no, they'd done it (and this is the first gear they've ever owned). I then asked about warranties but they weren't concerned with those (we fill out the cards or the on-line forms for our customers to make certain they get registered). Finally, I asked them how much they'd saved. "A hundred bucks!" they cheerily replied. "Where'd you get it?" I asked. I'll let everyone guess where. OK, LP. I then suggested they run up to LP and test their new gear in their pool, which, for some reason, irritated them. I then recounted all that had occurred, including all the time we'd spent with them to educate them and help them select the best choices for them, how we'd have assembled and tested their gear and, finally, provided them a pool to try their new purchases out. They told me that I was obviously not an astute businessperson (in slightly different terms--thankfully there weren't any children present) and that they'd never darken my door again--after they tried to tell me that I could not deny them access to my property so long as they paid. I found that almost amusing, but kept it to myself. They've held true to their word and that's OK. Again, we understand that we must provide added value and that some folks just don't want or need that.

Regardless, it is a difficult business at times but it is that, a business. We have to charge enough to make a profit so we can continue to provide the knowledgeable and helpful people, facilities and services we do. As well, we are contractually obligated, for the most part, to adhere to MAP pricing established by our vendors.

Anyway, that's how we do it. Seems to be working so far.

I sat down and talked to my local shop about buying cars. Darned it we didn't come to realize we both bought our cars in the same place - The dealer that gave us the BEST DEAL. Didn't much matter which one we did the test drive with or which one had the friendliest salesmen (but a poor salesman might end the transaction before you even get to talking price.

What I don't understand is why you had to run those customers off!!! And you seem to be proud of it. It would have taken less time to simply charge them a fair price for what they wanted and see them again in the future for service, training, and other sales. But, you are the business man. How do you know it is working?
 
What I don't understand is why you had to run those customers off!!! And you seem to be proud of it. It would have taken less time to simply charge them a fair price for what they wanted and see them again in the future for service, training, and other sales. But, you are the business man. How do you know it is working?

Yeah, that would have made much difference just like you did with your car dealer. If these folks don't see it and they "used" this dealer and then ended up buying their stuff online, they would always go this route just like you. Some customers aren't worth having and the retailer can't afford to have them just like in this scenario and the ones with your attitude.
 
Yeah, that would have made much difference just like you did with your car dealer. If these folks don't see it and they "used" this dealer and then ended up buying their stuff online, they would always go this route just like you. Some customers aren't worth having and the retailer can't afford to have them just like in this scenario and the ones with your attitude.

"Used" the dealer!!! Do you mean like every time the salesman tried to walk away they called him back just to pump him some more?? It is my impression that shops are more than happy to keep the sale working as long as they think they will get the $$$ in the end. And, obviously, the customer must have misunderstood the shop when they were asked to come back after they shopped around so they could work out the best deal there.

Seems to me that some shops decide that customers are more trouble than they are worth when the customer finds better deals elsewhere.
 
Seems to me that some shops decide that customers are more trouble than they are worth when the customer finds better deals elsewhere.

Yeah, try to get a free loaner from the dealer you "used" and wasted his time when you need it.

Back to scuba, you want the dive retailer to let these jerks to strut the gear they bought somewhere else in front of their customers when they walk in their store, pool and classroom? That would be stupid no matter how much they would have charged them for the service.
 
Yeah, try to get a free loaner from the dealer you "used" and wasted his time when you need it.

Back to scuba, you want the dive retailer to let these jerks to strut the gear they bought somewhere else in front of their customers when they walk in their store, pool and classroom? That would be stupid no matter how much they would have charged them for the service.

I can understand the disappointment a shop may feel when they lose a sale. But I suspect the shop usually did not do what it needed to do to earn the sale - a free cup of coffee and a smile is not the answer. You need to prevail in the negotiation of the value of the deal you are offering. Telling the customer that you are restricted by your dealer agreement is not really helpful when another dealer can find a way to come to agreement.

What I really don't understand is the attitude expressed and displayed by shops when the deal does not go their way. Even when the sale goes south (or LP), the shop should smile and invite the customer back in the future. A dive shop simply has too many vulnerabilities to be overtly treating folks poorly. Little to gain and lots to lose. Not good business.
 
I can understand the disappointment a shop may feel when they lose a sale. But I suspect the shop usually did not do what it needed to do to earn the sale - a free cup of coffee and a smile is not the answer. You need to prevail in the negotiation of the value of the deal you are offering. Telling the customer that you are restricted by your dealer agreement is not really helpful when another dealer can find a way to come to agreement.

What I really don't understand is the attitude expressed and displayed by shops when the deal does not go their way. Even when the sale goes south (or LP), the shop should smile and invite the customer back in the future. A dive shop simply has too many vulnerabilities to be overtly treating folks poorly. Little to gain and lots to lose. Not good business.

It is always about price for you, that's the problem. You never looked at and appreciated the other services that you can get from this store. What this retailer offered to the client is worth a lot more than the hundred bucks he saved. He can't and won't get that from the internet outfit at all.

You again don't understand what it would mean to protect your current clients from a stupid person who would never appreciate the courtesy and service he was offered by the local retailer and still went to mail order. These people still want and expect that the local retailer to put the gear together for them, test it AND of top of that let them in their people to familiarize themselves with the gear they bought somewhere else. And just like any other person on the planet, they aren't going to talk to all other customer about the deal they got from the online merchant, just like letting the fox into the chicken coop and expecting it to behave and become a chicken. These people have no respect whatsoever to the local retail and aren't afraid to show it.
 
It is always about price for you, that's the problem. You never looked at and appreciated the other services that you can get from this store. What this retailer offered to the client is worth a lot more than the hundred bucks he saved. He can't and won't get that from the internet outfit at all.

You again don't understand what it would mean to protect your current clients from a stupid person who would never appreciate the courtesy and service he was offered by the local retailer and still went to mail order. These people still want and expect that the local retailer to put the gear together for them, test it AND of top of that let them in their people to familiarize themselves with the gear they bought somewhere else. And just like any other person on the planet, they aren't going to talk to all other customer about the deal they got from the online merchant, just like letting the fox into the chicken coop and expecting it to behave and become a chicken. These people have no respect whatsoever to the local retail and aren't afraid to show it.

If you think that is what he said, I think you need to re-read. He is talking about
the negotiation of the value of the deal
. (emphasis added)

You are both talking about value. Price is only one component, albeit a very visible one.

The difference is, you seem to disagree that if the customer did not see the greater value offered by the LDS, either the value was not there or the LDS failed to communicate it. If the customer walks out with the perception that LP is a better value, whose fault is that?

---------- Post added January 25th, 2014 at 09:58 PM ----------

Telling the customer that you are restricted by your dealer agreement is not really helpful when another dealer can find a way to come to agreement.

Agreed. There is a reason many shops sell bundles. It allows them to sell VALUE without violating minimum pricing agreements.
 
If you think that is what he said, I think you need to re-read. He is talking about . (emphasis added)

You are both talking about value. Price is only one component, albeit a very visible one.

The difference is, you seem to disagree that if the customer did not see the greater value offered by the LDS, either the value was not there or the LDS failed to communicate it. If the customer walks out with the perception that LP is a better value, whose fault is that?

I would have accepted your argument had I not been a dive retailer for over a decade and have dealt with this type of people in NY. Also, the retailer mentioned above is a top notch retailer and is one of the most successful ones in North America. The other fact of life you all seem to forget is that not all people are aware of what is good for them beyond the very visible one although not the best value.


There is a reason many shops sell bundles. It allows them to sell VALUE without violating minimum pricing agreements.


You seem to believe that the retailer isn't lowering his prices just because of the vendor policies not because of his own believes and business rules and values he had set for himself.
 
It is always about price for you, that's the problem. You never looked at and appreciated the other services that you can get from this store. What this retailer offered to the client is worth a lot more than the hundred bucks he saved. He can't and won't get that from the internet outfit at all.

You again don't understand what it would mean to protect your current clients from a stupid person who would never appreciate the courtesy and service he was offered by the local retailer and still went to mail order. These people still want and expect that the local retailer to put the gear together for them, test it AND of top of that let them in their people to familiarize themselves with the gear they bought somewhere else. And just like any other person on the planet, they aren't going to talk to all other customer about the deal they got from the online merchant, just like letting the fox into the chicken coop and expecting it to behave and become a chicken. These people have no respect whatsoever to the local retail and aren't afraid to show it.

"Price" is the term you used. I used the term "value". While the two are quite close, they are not the same. I am quite willing to pay a bit more for gear from a shop that will sell what I want. Unfortunately, very few will. The referenced client will probably find what he is looking for somewhere else and share his experience with other potential customers. And some other shop will probably get the $100 he saved, and more.

I have not heard the term "mail order" in quite some time but I am sure there are customers who buy on the internet and then bring their gear to a local shop for service. I would think the smart shop see this as an opportunity for profit and responds accordingly. But these on-line shops also seem to be doing a good business with service which tells me some local shops are unable or unwilling to meet the service demands at a competitive price either. It really speaks poorly of local shops when you realize they are even losing service business to online providers. I wonder to what degree that is because local shop drive these customers to seek service elsewhere.

Do you really think a customer needs to pay higher prices or settle for less value to demonstrate his respect for a local dive shop??? You do make it fairly clear why some dive shops just seem to have a hard time.
 
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https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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