AQUALUNG and LEISUREPRO

[gcarter]

I would have accepted your argument had I not been a dive retailer for over a decade and have dealt with this type of people in NY. Also, the retailer mentioned above is a top notch retailer and is one of the most successful ones in North America. The other fact of life you all seem to forget is that not all people are aware of what is good for them beyond the very visible one although not the best value.

I am well aware of that. So the LDS can either recognize that and accept that they will not be a customer, or they can try to educate the customer on why their value proposition should win the day. In neither case is it necessary to bad mouth the customer.

You seem to believe that the retailer isn't lowering his prices just because of the vendor policies not because of his own believes and business rules and values he had set for himself.

Please show where I said that. Look at the context of what I was replying to:

Telling the customer that you are restricted by your dealer agreement is not really helpful when another dealer can find a way to come to agreement.

I don't know why you feel the need to misrepresent what I said.

Look, the LDS can meet a price or not, I don't care. They can sell their value proposition or not, I don't care. But if the don't or can't, that is not the fault of the customer. A LDS does not deserve business any more that any other type of shop. They have to earn business and stop blaming others if they don't.

I paid $15 for a book bolt for my BP/W because it was CONVIENIENT. I know I got hosed from a pricing perspective, but that LDS provides me with overall net VALUE. That LDS has EARNED my business and gets the bulk of it. I have also bought things online from LP, DRIS, DGE, Piranha, when the value proposition favored them.

Value is not all about price whatever experience you had as a retailer.

 

[BoltSnap]

The customer in question went for the price and the price alone. He got all of the information he needed to make up his mind about what he wanted and went for the lowest PRICE.

Again, the shop referenced above is one of the MOST successful dive shops in North America and has one of the BEST services centers as well.

 

[gcarter]

The customer in question went for the price and the price alone. He got all of the information he needed to make up his mind about what he wanted and went for the lowest PRICE.

Again, the shop referenced above is one of the MOST successful dive shops in North America and has one of the BEST services centers as well.

Which means that the shop either was unsuccessful in convincing him that theirs was a better VALUE or they made a decision to not expend sufficient effort to attract / keep this individual as a customer.

The customer did nothing wrong. He equated price and value because nobody showed him any different.

The overall success of the shop says that they generally do this well. They cannot expect to win them all, but that is still not cause to berate / ridicule the customer.

 

[BoltSnap]

The overall success of the shop says that they generally do this well. They cannot expect to win them all, but that is still not cause to berate / ridicule the customer.

I would generally agree with you but I didn't get the impression here that the store berated or ridiculed the customer. I can only see that he told them about how much he has done to help them with their decision and what service he had to offer them.

It is easy to put the blame on the retailer but this would neglect the fact that there are people out there that don't care and have no respect to others and they all care about is the price, price price. They know that they are robbing you of your time/money when they make you spend so much time with them to finalize their decision. They probably knew where they are going to make their purchase before they stepped into the store.

What they did is like a person buying a steak at a local supermarket and then taking it to a steakhouse and ask the chef there to cook it for them after they have got the information of what the best steak is from the chef few days earlier. I have no problem with the chef kicking their butts out the door and I don't think that many other people would see anything wrong with their kicking them out but when a dive shop owner does it, he is considered the bad guy. There is something wrong with our industry.

I believe that part of the problem is that most of the people diving is an activity for them that doesn't effect their livelihood and expect the retailer to be a charity not a business. When I had my retail operation, many people thought that I should just give stuff away and subsidize their "recreational" activity since it is "fun" business.

 

[gcarter]

I would generally agree with you but I didn't get the impression here that the store berated or ridiculed the customer. I can only see that he told them about how much he has done to help them with their decision and what service he had to offer them.

If I incorrectly attributed the ridicule I apologize to that poster. That attitude is evident in this thread though.

 

[mjrob]

I did not berate or ridicule the customer, so thanks for that. I, in a calm and rational way, explained the value difference he didn't understand. He, on the other hand, needed to be ejected from our store simply for the language he used toward me and my team. Hey, we're not going to get all the customers and that's OK. We earn the ones we get and enjoy doing business with them. I'm the staunchest capitalist you'll ever meet; competition is a good thing and we all thrive on it. And regardless of what anyone thinks of MAP and MSP pricing, I have signed agreements to uphold those policies. I always honor my promises.
In return for that and some other things, our vendors take good care of us. That's important to me. Price is normally my third purchase criteria, not first, but that's just how I am.

You asked how I know we're successful. There are many metrics to determine that and, for the most part, we're hitting them all. One of those is repeat business and we're doing well there. As an example, some 53% of our travelers last year were repeat customers. That helps us maintain a positive cash flow--another important metric. There are, of course, areas in which we can improve and we take all input seriously, good or bad. Actually, all input is good. We're a work in progress; we always will be.

I'd invite everyone to visit either of our facilities in Springfield, MO or Omaha, NE. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with our people and we'll be thrilled to show you around. You don't even have to buy anything, but you probably will. Divers just can't pass up new goodies. I'm the world's worst.

 

[redacted]

I asked them if their gear came assembled and they told me no, they'd done it (and this is the first gear they've ever owned). I then asked about warranties but they weren't concerned with those (we fill out the cards or the on-line forms for our customers to make certain they get registered). Finally, I asked them how much they'd saved. "A hundred bucks!" they cheerily replied. "Where'd you get it?" I asked. I'll let everyone guess where. OK, LP. I then suggested they run up to LP and test their new gear in their pool, which, for some reason, irritated them. I then recounted all that had occurred, including all the time we'd spent with them to educate them and help them select the best choices for them, how we'd have assembled and tested their gear and, finally, provided them a pool to try their new purchases out. They told me that I was obviously not an astute businessperson (in slightly different terms--thankfully there weren't any children present) and that they'd never darken my door again--after they tried to tell me that I could not deny them access to my property so long as they paid. I found that almost amusing, but kept it to myself. They've held true to their word and that's OK. Again, we understand that we must provide added value and that some folks just don't want or need that.

I did not berate or ridicule the customer, so thanks for that. I, in a calm and rational way, explained the value difference he didn't understand. He, on the other hand, needed to be ejected from our store simply for the language he used toward me and my team. Hey, we're not going to get all the customers and that's OK. We earn the ones we get and enjoy doing business with them. I'm the staunchest capitalist you'll ever meet; competition is a good thing and we all thrive on it. And regardless of what anyone thinks of MAP and MSP pricing, I have signed agreements to uphold those policies. I always honor my promises.
In return for that and some other things, our vendors take good care of us. That's important to me. Price is normally my third purchase criteria, not first, but that's just how I am.

You asked how I know we're successful. There are many metrics to determine that and, for the most part, we're hitting them all. One of those is repeat business and we're doing well there. As an example, some 53% of our travelers last year were repeat customers. That helps us maintain a positive cash flow--another important metric. There are, of course, areas in which we can improve and we take all input seriously, good or bad. Actually, all input is good. We're a work in progress; we always will be.

I'd invite everyone to visit either of our facilities in Springfield, MO or Omaha, NE. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with our people and we'll be thrilled to show you around. You don't even have to buy anything, but you probably will. Divers just can't pass up new goodies. I'm the world's worst.

I read what you wrote in your earlier post and it strikes me that you went beyond a "calm and rational" explanation with your questioning approach and your comment about using the LP pool. Are you really going to suggest that you did not mean to cause offense with that approach? Do you really not see how you could have effectively delivered the same message without driving customers away from your shop?

I'm sure the customer learned a lesson from this encounter. I hope you did also.

 

[mjrob]

I'm even learning from you. Like I said, we'll always be a work in progress.

My side of the conversation was pretty calm; theirs was not. In fact, it was profane and abusive. I can't allow that toward my staff or in the presence of other potential (or existing) customers. i understand that you'd have handled it in a different manner. Again, that's OK--your place, your call. i am comfortable with my decision.

It's sometimes difficult to convey actual situations via the written word.

 

[gcarter]

I did not berate or ridicule the customer, so thanks for that. I, in a calm and rational way, explained the value difference he didn't understand. He, on the other hand, needed to be ejected from our store simply for the language he used toward me and my team. Hey, we're not going to get all the customers and that's OK. We earn the ones we get and enjoy doing business with them. I'm the staunchest capitalist you'll ever meet; competition is a good thing and we all thrive on it. And regardless of what anyone thinks of MAP and MSP pricing, I have signed agreements to uphold those policies. I always honor my promises.
In return for that and some other things, our vendors take good care of us. That's important to me. Price is normally my third purchase criteria, not first, but that's just how I am.

You asked how I know we're successful. There are many metrics to determine that and, for the most part, we're hitting them all. One of those is repeat business and we're doing well there. As an example, some 53% of our travelers last year were repeat customers. That helps us maintain a positive cash flow--another important metric. There are, of course, areas in which we can improve and we take all input seriously, good or bad. Actually, all input is good. We're a work in progress; we always will be.

I'd invite everyone to visit either of our facilities in Springfield, MO or Omaha, NE. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with our people and we'll be thrilled to show you around. You don't even have to buy anything, but you probably will. Divers just can't pass up new goodies. I'm the world's worst.

I actually hate going into shops for this very reason

I dropped my regulators off for annual service last weekend. Spent 5 minutes looking around, turned to my son and said "We need to leave before I buy something I don't need".

 

[mjrob]

It's all part of my evil plan to try take over the world.