An observation about divers

[Rhone Man]

I find interesting the similarities between this debate and the broader debate recently provoked by Amy Chua, the "tiger mom," in her Wall Street Journal essay, where she made a similar assertion:

Careful about citing the person who thinks that a mother's first duty is to rob a child of their childhood as authority for anything. I stand by my view that she is someone who courts controversy solely to sell books. I also find it interesting that a Fillipino born American tries to pass herself off as Chinese; notwithstanding her ethnicity she has never actually lived in China.

 

[vladimir]

Careful about citing the person who thinks that a mother's first duty is to rob a child of their childhood as authority for anything. I stand by my view that she is someone who courts controversy solely to sell books. I also find it interesting that a Fillipino born American tries to pass herself off as Chinese; notwithstanding her ethnicity she has never actually lived in China.

Well, I only cited her as an authority on the book she wrote, which she certainly is. "Chinese" serves to define an ethnic group as much as a nationality, so I don't see the problem there, although I don't see the need to define the debate in terms of ethnicity, as she chose to, except perhaps to create some controversy, as you say. Mission accomplished there--she sold a lot of books.

The visceral reaction she seems to provoke among the "Western mom" sympathizers is one of the parallels I see to the long-running DIR debate. Then there is the embrace of achievement at the expense of fun, at least in the short term; the emphasis on practicing to a point others deem unnecessary; "setting the bar" at a level others deem unreasonable or impossible to attain. The "elitism." I'm sure there are more.

I am not interested in defending Amy Chua, but it should be noted that her little essay in the WSJ is a tongue-in-cheek excerpt that misrepresents the gist of the book, according to her. I didn't read the book but I have read a couple of other statements in the press, since I seem to be, as a Westerner living in China, a natural mediator of the debate among those I correspond with. Similarly, I don't have any strong feelings regarding the DIR debate--I am much more interested in why it evokes such strong emotions than I am in the substance of the debate.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Careful about citing the person who thinks that a mother's first duty is to rob a child of their childhood as authority for anything. I stand by my view that she is someone who courts controversy solely to sell books. I also find it interesting that a Fillipino born American tries to pass herself off as Chinese; notwithstanding her ethnicity she has never actually lived in China.

I find that particular view to be in keeping with the Chinese and Taiwanese parents I've come to know over the years ... all of whom take at least as much personal interest in their children's well-being as their western counterparts. They want their kids to be successful, and teach them from an early age that success is the outcome of personal effort and responsibility. I don't think that has an adverse impact on a child's ability to enjoy their childhood ... leadership begins at an early age, and even among children leaders tend to have a better sense of self-worth than followers.

There was a time when American parents used to instill in their kids the importance of hard work as a means to achieving a better life for themselves. Somewhere along the line, we lost the notion that in order to succeed in this world you have to be better than those you're competing against. I think that's the fundamental cause of the decline of our quality of life.

I have found that in my own life, joy really does come from achievement ... and the harder I have to work to succeed at something, the more joy I get from achieving it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Lobzilla]

I find that particular view to be in keeping with the Chinese and Taiwanese parents I've come to know over the years ... all of whom take at least as much personal interest in their children's well-being as their western counterparts. They want their kids to be successful, and teach them from an early age that success is the outcome of personal effort and responsibility. I don't think that has an adverse impact on a child's ability to enjoy their childhood ... leadership begins at an early age, and even among children leaders tend to have a better sense of self-worth than followers.

There was a time when American parents used to instill in their kids the importance of hard work as a means to achieving a better life for themselves. Somewhere along the line, we lost the notion that in order to succeed in this world you have to be better than those you're competing against. I think that's the fundamental cause of the decline of our quality of life.

I have found that in my own life, joy really does come from achievement ... and the harder I have to work to succeed at something, the more joy I get from achieving it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

+1

To tie this back to the OP, I think we all can agree that under water you are competing against yourself. Against your ignorance, complacency, hubris, and fears. A loss against these opponents is not something anyone should take lightly.

So, at any time during our scuba career we should ask ourselves whether we are still 'in the game', committed to earning another win against our dark side.

Here are my indicators that I am beginning to get on a slippery slope.

• Rather than practicing to get better at something I suck at, I feel the need to question the value of the skill
• Rather than understanding and getting used to procedures and configurations that have prooven their value tenthousand times over I think that I am the only bright person who has discovered an obvious shortcoming in the 'system' (fat chance!)

In aviation I have learned that 99% of the time the pilot is the problem and not the airplane or the 'system'. Is there any magic ingredient in the water that makes scuba diving different?

 

[randytay]

Ah so you have a solution in search of a problem.

I have neither. If I have the solution, i wouldn't be looking for ways to upgrade myself. And I didn't mean that in a certification level sense.

Now its my turn. Out of curiosity, what are you trying to achieve by asking me a loaded question and then passing a judgement on an honest answer?

 

[randytay]

+1

To tie this back to the OP, I think we all can agree that under water you are competing against yourself. Against your ignorance, complacency, hubris, and fears. A loss against these opponents is not something anyone should take lightly.

So, at any time during your scuba career you should ask yourself whether you are still 'in the game', committed to earning a win against your dark side.

Here are my indicators that I am beginning to get on a slippery slope.

• Rather than practicing to get better at something I suck at, I feel the need to question the value of the skill
• Rather than understanding and getting used to procedures and configurations that have prooven their value tenthousand times over I think that I am the only bright person who has discovered an obvious shortcoming in the 'system' (fat chance!)

Indeed. Which is why I am puzzled by people who scorned at me for wanting to be exposed to my "systems" so I can be better equipped in a potentially dangerous activity.

 

[randytay]

Careful about citing the person who thinks that a mother's first duty is to rob a child of their childhood as authority for anything. I stand by my view that she is someone who courts controversy solely to sell books. I also find it interesting that a Fillipino born American tries to pass herself off as Chinese; notwithstanding her ethnicity she has never actually lived in China.

Off-topic:

She is Chinese by ethnicity. "Chua" is a dialectical pronunciation of the character "蔡", which in Cantonese would have been pronounced "Choi" and Mandarin as "Cai" (which in the Wade-Giles pronunciation would be "T'sai").

If childhood means unrestrained behavior with a lack of discipline instilled so that one learns to set priorities in life early, then I am glad I did not have one. In my observation, many people wants to "be" without wanting to put in the effort to "become", and if someone "forces" one to do it, it conflicts with today's so-called sensibilities that is evidenced by the alarming number of under-achivers which is encouraged by the same people who feel that it is "ok" thereby totally ignoring the true potential of an individual.

Let's face it, everything sucks if you cannot do it. If I had my way back when I was a recruit, I would never have passed the Standard Obstables Course which I dread. Now looking back, I thanked my platoon sergeant for being "mean and nasty" to me because I can do it over and over again within the permitted time to pass, and actually enjoyed doing it. Look at the big picture

 

[DaleC]

There are flip sides to that chinese debate. My experience has been meeting some very unhappy products of that system (We host international students). They are very good at following, not so good at initiating. Very good at group think, very afraid of independant action. Some contemplate suicide because they cannot live up to expectation and we even had one "dumped" in Canada to avoid shaming "face" by their lack of success back home. There are many success stories too so I don't think one can judge them one way or the other. Depends what you want. It is interesting though, that so many Asian parents send their children to North America for their education.

The secret to success that I have discovered is not so much found in trying to be better than someone else, as it is in helping someone else be better.

I think as far as diving goes we should just try to remember why we wanted to dive in the first place. There are so many reasons for doing so and different concepts/systems fulfill different needs. If your path takes you to DIR so be it, if it doesn't that's ok too. To me, diving is a personal pursuit and it really doesn't matter what other people do.

It's not like this is the UN where we are voting on a resolution to determine which method of diving is "right".

 

[vladimir]

Very good at group think, very afraid of independant action.

Just to extend my analogy a bit further, does that sound familiar to any DIR-debate veterans?

 

[TSandM]

Just to extend my analogy a bit further, does that sound familiar to any DIR-debate veterans?

Sigh.

All of us who have been through these classes have gotten to watch some occasionally spirited exchanges between students and instructors, regarding any of the standardization decisions, whether that be equipment or procedure-related. There is ALWAYS an answer as to why something has been chosen the way it has -- sometimes the answer is that there are several ways to do something, and to minimize variation, ONE had to be picked. But there's no brainwashing, and questions are encouraged.

If someone presents to these classes as a passive conduit, asks no questions, and accepts everything told to them, I submit that a) they would have done that in ANY class, and b) it is not the fault of the system that educated them.