An observation about divers

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Well it was not clear what you hoped to get out of the class, and you confirmed that you do not really know. I’ve often wondered what people think they are going to get out of it. Personally I believe you will be exposed to some useful things, like the back kick, which you might not find in a mainstream class. But I fall short of the manic rapture of some of the others.

Let me try to answer this in another way, using something that we both have in common, basic open water scuba course.

Before scuba diving, it is instinctive to hold one's breath underwater because human beings are not equipped to breathe without a device such as a regulator. Before we take the basic openwater course, did you know that you are not suppose to hold your breath underwater? Today we all know that is a "problem".

Now, do you have to know that is a problem before you go do your openwater course to find the solutions to? I don't think so. You go to class not really knowing what to expect, you just know that when you get certified, you are certified to scuba dive.

Thats my mentality with joining a DIR course. I do not know what to expect, I do not know if there will be some problems that I am supposedly finding the solutions to, nor do I have a solution looking for a problem. I just want an education that can improve my diving, period.

Is that clearer to you? Or do you tend to read too much between the lines that you miss the obvious?
 
... I don't dive DIR. I've taken a few GUE classes and workshops, and affiliated myself with a GUE shop for a while ... so I know something about it. I'm also a solo diver, which is about as anathema to the DIR approach as you can get. And yet every year, when I get on The Peace with a couple dozen of my DIR friends, strap on my little aluminum buddy, and step off the boat without a teammate, not one DIR diver on that boat gives me grief about it. Ironically, the only people who have ever given me a hard time about solo diving are my non-DIR friends, who've been taught that you should always dive with a buddy. So ... to use your logic ... who's being judgmental and "sucking the fun out of diving"? The truth is, there are judgmental people representing every agency and every style of diving out there ... because it isn't someone's training that makes them that way ... it's their personality. And no agency trains people to have monolithic personalities.

So I'm not promoting DIR ... I'm promoting telling the truth. What I've found over the years is that those who speak the loudest against DIR ... or PADI ... or any of those other tiresome subjects we see on SB all the time ... are speaking from ignorance and promoting an agenda of fear. It usually turns out that they're insecure about their own choices, and therefore need to put someone else's down to make themselves feel better. I see you as one of those people.

It would be helpful if you put some qualifiers to your comments, like ... "I have no actual experience with DIR, but my opinion is" ... so that people would understand where you're coming from. You're entitled to express your opinion. And I'm equally entitled to point out that, on this particularl topic, you don't know what you're talking about.

To state that DIR divers don't love diving and don't have fun doing it is one of the stupidest comments I continually read on ScubaBoard. A significant percentage of my diving friends are DIR ... and I've yet to meet one who doesn't dive purely for the joy of it.

Everybody's different ... and everybody expresses their joy in different ways. So try judging people based on their personalities ... rather than their training. It's what you keep demanding of those who come in here with criticisms about the agency you teach for, after all ... and your objections to them would have a lot more validity if you didn't turn around and emulate their behavior.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Wow, this whole post really could have described me. When I first heard of DIR I was instantly opposed to it. I figured if they were arrogant enough to call their style Doing It Right, they must figure I am Doing It Wrong, and who the hell are THEY?!

So i spent some time being the exact thing I thought I hated about them. I heard of all the drills and the absolute rigid POV on team diving as opposed to anything else. I heard of the gear demands and jumped to the conclusion that all these folks are scared to death of being under water.

Then, in an effort to slay the DIR dragon during a debate, I started doing a lot of research into the program and concepts, I was looking for ammunition but instead I found that maybe some of that stuff makes some sense.

Fast forward to where I am at now, I am confident enough in my abilities and such that I am not really put off by such trivial things as a name any more. Not just DIR but in a great many other areas of my life as well.

I have never taken a GUE course, UTD course or even attended a workshop. What I know I have learned on the Web and from some other readings. I respect a lot of what I have learned, even if I do not necessarily agree with all of it. I have incorporated some of the things I have learned into my own diving, and what do you know? I can see a lot of improvement in areas that I was comfortable. I was comfortable because I wasn't really aware that I wanted to improve those things.

With so much variety in scuba, and in our own personalities, I have learned that there is room for a lot of ideas. I also think it is a great idea for people to expose themselves to as many of those ideas as they can. If someone is content with limiting themselves to one agency, that is fine if it works for them. I say experience as much or as little as you feel you need.

I don't think anyone needs to have a reason to take a DIR course, other than simple curiosity. I look at it the same way as all those PADI courses...if the student feels they add value, then who am I (or anyone else) to say otherwise?

I can see that there is a lot of value in the DIR courses. Maybe one day I will fork over the money for one. Or maybe not. One thing I know I won't do anymore is make judgments based on assumptions.
 
Randytay... just go enjoy your course. I believe that anyone can get something from it, no matter what their experience level.

Good luck! :)

Thank you very much!
 
To state that DIR divers don't love diving and don't have fun doing it is one of the stupidest comments I continually read on ScubaBoard.

And one I didn't make. And the "Sucking the life" comment was from TSandM, not me.

I wrote an attempted (but clearly failed for you at least) joke suggesting that competative people might enjoy DIR training -- which from every post I've ever seen on the subject seems to be fairly well focused on continually trying to improve skills.
 
And one I didn't make. And the "Sucking the life" comment was from TSandM, not me.

I wrote an attempted (but clearly failed for you at least) joke suggesting that competative people might enjoy DIR training -- which from every post I've ever seen on the subject seems to be fairly well focused on continually trying to improve skills.

Your saying this reminds me of how many people today, are happy to take glory in embracing mediocrity....there are so many people who just want to get by, who are not interested in being "good"...

I believe the big training agencies may enjoy profiting from this cultural mediocrity potential---they have found that it is easier to design a curriculum that provides little chance of excellence, but provides every liklihood that every single person entering a class can pass. In this entire thread you have repeatedly glorified the avoidance of advanced skills, and attempted to ridicule divers who wanted more than the mainstream ( the group that is on a pass or fail system, where almost no one can fail). Thank god there are many PADI and NAUI instructors ( and others) out there who absolutely disagree with your position, and instead, try hard to offer more advanced skills to their students who have an interest in "actually learning optimal diving skills".
More than likley, you will continue to champion the mediocrity of a mass market. The big favor you have done the scubaboard forums, is in making this agenda so obvious.
 
And for those that forgot that all of life need not be a competition to see if you're better than others, there's DIR. :eyebrow:

I wrote an attempted (but clearly failed for you at least) joke suggesting that competative people might enjoy DIR training --

There's a big difference between what you said and what you're claiming you said ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I believe the big training agencies may enjoy profiting from this cultural mediocrity potential---they have found that it is easier to design a curriculum that provides little chance of excellence, but provides every liklihood that every single person entering a class can pass.

God forbid that scuba shouldn't be an exclusive club.

In this entire thread you have repeatedly glorified the avoidance of advanced skills,

Really? Where? Since I've done it repeatedly in this thread you should easily point to two or three posts where I suggest people who don't practice skills are to be congratulated? I heartily recommend practicing skills and even posted that it is ideal for people to do so.

and attempted to ridicule divers who wanted more than the mainstream ( the group that is on a pass or fail system, where almost no one can fail).

Sorry, wrong again. I haven't ridiculed anyone in this thread.

Thank god there are many PADI and NAUI instructors ( and others) out there who absolutely disagree with your position, and instead, try hard to offer more advanced skills to their students who have an interest in "actually learning optimal diving skills".
More than likley, you will continue to champion the mediocrity of a mass market. The big favor you have done the scubaboard forums, is in making this agenda so obvious.

The very phrasing of your point shows the issue. I believe that diving is a recreational activity where people can have fun and be safe with a few well practiced skills. It's not a competition. It's not about excellence versus mediocrity, it's about participation, fun, discovery and joy. Practice skills because keeping them practiced will make you a safer diver and allow you to have more fun in the water, and it might lead you down paths to other types of diving you haven't considered. But it's not a competition. And treating it as one misses the point.

You want to work on skills and develop pinpoint buoyancy control because you find that fun or you want to engage in a type of diving where that's necessary? Great, go for it! But the second you decide that because you can hover within some arbitrary number of inches of a set depth that you have a right to look down your nose at some one who doesn't care to refine their skills to that level, then you're entirely out of line.
 
I believe that diving is a recreational activity where people can have fun and be safe with a few well practiced skills. It's not a competition. It's not about excellence versus mediocrity, it's about participation, fun, discovery and joy.
No one except you have claimed that diving's a competition.

You want to work on skills and develop pinpoint buoyancy control because you find that fun or you want to engage in a type of diving where that's necessary? Great, go for it! Come dive with me and I'll help you do it (without charging you anything, since I love mentoring divers and I dive all the time anyway).
DIR is not about "pinpoint buoyancy control" ... buoyancy control is just one means to an end, and DIR is about developing and integrating all of the skills needed to achieve the end.

But the second you decide that because you can hover within some arbitrary number of inches of a set depth that you have a right to look down your nose at some one who doesn't care to refine their skills to that level, then you're entirely out of line.
Well ... to play your game ... show me where anybody has done that ...

You like to make assumptions and frame them as fact. The only fact that's obvious is that you don't know what you're talking about.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 

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