Aluminum 80s versus larger steel tanks
- Thread starter Midge907
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Mike
Contributor
Maybe you just let it go? Cause, I'm not sure who made you king and why do I need to provide you with further information to support basic facts just because you're unaware of the information? It would certainly be more pleasant if you simply did your own research when you come across something that you're unaware of, instead of knee-jerk reactions of shooting the messenger all the time.
Even now, you're still trying to argue with John now about SAC rates and sampling from a scubaboard poll, which as John already intelligently explained to you that a scubaboard poll is far from a scientific poll and the results are skewed not by who answers the poll, but more importantly who isn't answering it, much like your entire ranting all this time about your personal dive profiles proving average bottom times are over 60 minutes in Cozumel, when the math clearly can't support it. I just hope you give John more respect than you did me, or next you're going to be demanding him to present you with data to prove SAC rates to you next.
Nice. Its the internet, don't get rattled. You don't have to provide facts; there is no rule. I am sure there is a following who go with 'Mike said so it must be true.' I like the King thing though. Nice touch, thinking of this for my profile:
Even now, you're still trying to argue with John now about SAC rates and sampling from a scubaboard poll, which as John already intelligently explained to you that a scubaboard poll is far from a scientific poll and the results are skewed not by who answers the poll, but more importantly who isn't answering it, much like your entire ranting all this time about your personal dive profiles proving average bottom times are over 60 minutes in Cozumel, when the math clearly can't support it. I just hope you give John more respect than you did me, or next you're going to be demanding him to present you with data to prove SAC rates to you next.
Not arguing with BJ. He is a smart guy. Often lowly people like me ask smart guys questions and challenge things to learn more. And BJ often seems to provide an intelligent discussion. As I said I find it shocking that I border on expert or better on air and I am typically only in the upper half the boat on air usage.
As I said, I would expect that just about anyone who knows what a SAC rate is and has gone through the process of determining theirs would be at or near the expert level. That is especially true for this poll. It was done in 2004, and back then practically the only people talking about SAC rates were technical divers. I don't know any recreational course that taught it then--there are precious few that teach it now. When I teach it in any course other than the two Distinctive Specialties that were written by me and a friend with whom I consulted on the writing, I am teaching something that is not in the curriculum. Further, in 2004 the Advanced Diving forum did not exist, and neither did the Tech to Tech forums. It may be in the Basic forum, but if you look at the people who responded, they were mostly technical divers or at least very advanced.
Sure. The less work you do while diving, the better your SAC rate will be. There is a lot of confusion between the terms SAC and RMV (Respiratory Minute Volume). Some people argue that the term SAC only refers to dead quiet on the surface, and you multiply that number by the depth (ATA) and a number representing the expected effort on the dive to find the RMV, or the rate at which you expect to go through air during the dive. Others see SAC as representing an average level of activity that is either adjusted up or down to predict your gas needs depending upon your expected level of activity. Drift diving can be very calm and relaxing. On the other hand, I remember a drift dive on Barracuda Reef that required me to swim harder than a have on all but a handful of dives in my lifetime.
Now that is just crude. Please, Garth....
---------- Post added May 13th, 2014 at 05:43 PM ----------
So would it be reasonable to draw the inference that lots of male divers get to 0.5 ranges and women that and a little better?
The fact that you classify it as 'expert' it more that it is the top of the scale most people can achieve, not that it is a select group of people.
So there could be lots of 'expert' SAC divers in Coz? And they could be getting close to 60 minute dive times.
Or am I wrong? (and keep it to yourself, BJ, but I think those 120 steels are kinda cool....)
It doesn't surprise me at all. I would expect a diver with your experience to be in that range. When I go diving on a boat which has been preselected to have more experienced divers, as many are in Cozumel, it would not surprise me to have quite a few such divers there. I'm not bad myself, but I have been on dives recently where I am absolutely the hoover in that group. I did a bunch of dives with Edd Sorenson in March and November last year. That was a SAC embarrassment to be sure.
As I also said, it isn't that hard for a diver to get to the 0.5 range. It's just hard for a lot of people to get past it. I am not as good as I used to be, but I never got all that far below 0.5 before.
BTW, I never felt you were challenging me in this discussion. I think it has been productive.
Yep. As for small, fit women, go over to the mainland and dive with Natalie Gibb some time if you want to see someone who barely uses air. When we dive I am not sure why she changes tanks between dives. (Yes, I am kidding. I do know why.)
It depends upon the average depth. With the average depths I posted earlier from my 2009 Cozumel experience, I could not have reached a 60 minute average. My average depth would have had to be shallower.
I like them myself, and not just for the extra air. They are a lot heavier than the AL 80s, and so that distributes the weight nicely along my back. If don't really need any weight if I am diving with a BCD, although it is close. If I am diving with a back plate, I absolutely don't need any extra weight. Either way, the total weight is distributed beautifully.
Dear Mike and CV Chief, can't we just make up? I like you both, and even Mossman a little! I hereby openly admit that some people don't like HP Steel Tanks End of story?
Dave
Dave
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