Alec Pierce Scuba - Long Hose Good or Bad

[Brian G]

Meanwhile, anyone suggesting long hoses are a choke hazards can go play with the bp/w face plants you in the water crowd.

At least according to the scubaboard search tool, you are the first to mention "choke" in this thread. Maybe Alec mentioned choke hazard. I only heard him misrepresent the number of wraps. I do know that if a panicked diver swims up from behind and on your left side and grabs your primary on a ling hose from your mouth and yanks it to their mouth, it will be hard to deploy for a few seconds. Not really a choking hazard though.

 

[PfcAJ]

The big assumption with the traditional octo configuration is that it should be within that "triangle".

On any given rec dive, you'll often see that it just isn't. Its stuffed somewhere, trapped under a strap, or dangling behind/under the diver.

The long hose/ bungeed backup doesn't suffer these problems. The bungeed reg isn't going anywhere because its securely attached and the long hose isn't hard to find because its connected to your face.

Alec conveniently leaves out the practical issues surrounding the use of an octo configuration and replaces that will falsehoods about the long hose.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

At least according to the scubaboard search tool, you are the first to mention "choke" in this thread. Maybe Alec mentioned choke hazard. I only heard him misrepresent the number of wraps. I do know that if a panicked diver swims up from behind and on your left side and grabs your primary on a ling hose from your mouth and yanks it to their mouth, it will be hard to deploy for a few seconds. Not really a choking hazard though.

Yet you repeated the "wrapped around the neck" nonsense. At no point does the long hose cross the front of your neck.

If a diver does grab the primary out of your mouth, then having it wrapped around your neck and under a dummy canister/real canister or tucked into waist belt cannot be called a feature.

 

[Bob DBF]

The big assumption with the traditional octo configuration is that it should be within that "triangle".

It was always interesting to me that the "triangle" is basicly not visible if a diver is in horosontal trim. Keeping it on one's shoulder works well but it isn't in the triangle I was taught. It's fine if one is vertical, or learning to dive on their knees.

On any given rec dive, you'll often see that it just isn't. Its stuffed somewhere, trapped under a strap, or dangling behind/under the diver.

Alec conveniently leaves out the practical issues surrounding the use of an octo configuration and replaces that will falsehoods about the long hose.

Don't pull the same falsehood crap that Aled did. Because someone uses a configuration improperly is no reason to condem the configuration, just the poorly trained diver.

The reason there are different configurations is because divers find them useful for the dives they make. Discussing the reasons to use a specific configuration for a specific dive can be very important safety issue, but only if it is the proper use that is discussed.




Bob

 

[shoredivr]

Just watched Achim's video and he is very defensive about why his system is best and everything else is inferior.

Very defensive? I don’t see that at all. I see emphatic.

 

[shoredivr]

The long hose allows both divers to swim side by side comfortably or single file. It is really much nicer than having a buddy in your face for the ascent. It is not just for overhead. To share airr with a long hose, you bow your head for a second while you or your buddy takes your second stage. While your head is bowed, you can put your backup reg in your mouth. It does not require a lot of practice. You can do it once and it will be like riding a bike.

I’d venture that most of the people commenting on how long hoses are inappropriate for OW have never tried it.

 

[CptTightPants21]

It was always interesting to me that the "triangle" is basicly not visible if a diver is in horosontal trim. Keeping it on one's shoulder works well but it isn't in the triangle I was taught. It's fine if one is vertical, or learning to dive on their knees.



Don't pull the same falsehood crap that Aled did. Because someone uses a configuration improperly is no reason to condem the configuration, just the poorly trained diver.

The reason there are different configurations is because divers find them useful for the dives they make. Discussing the reasons to use a specific configuration for a specific dive can be very important safety issue, but only if it is the proper use that is discussed.




Bob

I don't think it is a matter of a diver using configuration improperly--you could accurately say that forgetting to put the bungeed octo around ones neck is the same as failing to properly stow octo and is improper. The issue is that stowing the octo some place that is not bungeed around the neck lends itself to so many more errors and mistakes that are not diver error. During a dive, items become unclipped or slip out, things can shift/move around--things that don't accurately fall to the level of "poorly trained diver", just stuff happens in the real world. I once saw a diver with octo clipped on shoulder ascend down a line in a hard current. The octo was free flowing and bubbles were going straight up and missing his shoulder and because he was the 2nd person on buddy team no one was around to point it out to him and correct. I was on my 20ft stop and he was too deep by the time I noticed.

Long hose/bungeed octo is as close to idiot proof as you can get. Octo is tied in close/right in front of mouth and even a trapped long hose will have enough clearance to at least donate. The trapped long hose might not be able to fully deploy, but it would be no worse than diving a short hose primary.

 

[Brian G]

Yet you repeated the "wrapped around the neck" nonsense. At no point does the long hose cross the front of your neck.

"Wrap around" is used to describe things that go around other things, but it does not require that they complete a circuit. "The line for Garth Brooks wrapped around the corner." Even the TDI/SDI page on hose routing uses the term "around your neck" (Keeping Your Hose in Line - SDI | TDI | ERDI | PFI). So if I had said "routed behind your neck", we could then go on to talk civilly about how that is a feature? Should all hoses be routed behind the neck? I can see how some long hose proponents come across as elitist snobs when they are triggered by such mild criticisms.

 

[PfcAJ]

Don't pull the same falsehood crap that Aled did. Because someone uses a configuration improperly is no reason to condem the configuration, just the poorly trained diver.

Even when used properly (octo hose not trapped/ stuffed somewhere), the 2nd stage has to be held by somthing that is secure but also easily releasable.

Having both of those things at the same time just isn't a scuba reality.

You can see it by going on a dive boat and watching how many octos come unsecured during the course of the day.

Not just not a good configuration.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I don't believe it is an elitist snob issue as much as some refusing to look at the possible advantages of a long hose. It works well in tech diving as well as recreational. Mery and I each use a long hose for shallow reef diving. It is streamlined, doesn't snag on kelp or tug on your second stage in current. It's a lot easier to deploy than what some are making it out to be. It really does take a second or two and does not put the donor in danger as Alec said.