Alec Pierce Scuba - Long Hose Good or Bad

[shoredivr]

Reading through some of the reply chains on youtube convinces me Alec is being deliberately obtuse. They are a depressing read. Hats off to those still trying to set the story straight there. But Alec is working against it.

I'm fine with preferring one way or another. I'm not fine with comments like 'If one might not work, I'll plan on keeping the one I've got'. Or replying to corrections on neck wraps and comments on local dive temps, with I hear you comments on local dive temps.

IMO he is disingenuously flogging this issue for ratings. And he still, after all these years, and all these corrections up to and including having a workshop on long hoses hosted at his shop (Ayisha references this) continues to spread bunk about multiple hose coils around your neck.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Having a reg out of the donor’s mouth as a perceived safety issue is one quarter part of his argument against long hoses for rec divers. He spends some time countering this perceived safety issue by showing how to use a yellow octo in the triangle, and an even longer time talking how an OOA diver can grab an octo from an inattentive (photographer) buddy. That’s all in the same category, air sharing, to me, and it’s significant for his POV.

The rest of his argument is:

long hoses require training and practice (how is that different from every other part of Scuba?)

they are complicated to use (the sidemount video clip he includes shows that is untrue)

long hoses are used by a minority of rec divers so will be unfamiliar to most (so are Scubapro AirIIs, and I note that Alec’s store is a Scubapro dealer; familiarizing your buddy with your gear is a routine we are all supposed to do pre-dive so using an unfamiliar piece of equipment like an AirII, wing or long hose is easily dealt with)

they are from the tech world of cave and wreck diving (sorry to break it to you, but BCDs and a second regulator for a buddy’s out-of-air emergency also come from cave diving, and oddly enough these are totally acceptable and uncomplicated, and don’t require any more than usual training for recreational scuba divers).

So on the note of the unaware photographer. Quite often the photographer will be low to the bottom taking a pic (but not always). How easy is it for an OOA diver to access the photographer’s alternate? I suspect it is going to be easier to rip the primary out of their mouth,

we need to inject some reality into our practices.

 

[Saboteur]

I think I can settle this issue once and for all.

All new divers should use a BPW, very firm jet-style paddle fins (in black!), canister light, long hose primary and necklace'd secondary. Don't ever kneel on the bottom. Failure to comply with these standards will get you ridiculed, followed by a long lecture on why this gear setup is superior. Showing up a dive sight as a new diver in this gear will also get you ridiculed.

And don’t forget the Shearwater...

 

[Bob DBF]

It really takes only about 1 - 2 seconds. In my training, I was switching pretty instantaneously from the primary to backup in probably one second, and I was told to slow it down.

I was donating the primary with my right hand and by the time the "victim" had control of the reg, I had already located my backup with my left hand and popped it in my mouth. Easy peasy and I'm sure under a second.

They asked me to wait until the victim had taken a breath or two, so maybe a few seconds.

One of my instructors could switch to his backup without hands by just ducking his chin. I've never tried.

Keep in mind that this was right after Alec reiterated to me his concerns about 2 divers without a reg in their mouth at the same time, since I was switching to a long hose, and I discussed it with the instructor.



You can take a moment to donate when you're ready. It doesn't have to be the split second that you get the signal. If you just exhaled, you can inhale and then donate. You can also have your backup ready in your hand before you take your primary reg out.

I find that no different than with practicing the old buddy breathing. You took a couple of breaths and then passed the reg back. You likely chose to pass it back after you inhaled rather than exhaled.
It's also just like a reg re and re. Many of us have had a reg sculled/kicked out and it was a non-issue, even if you just exhaled.

@wetb4igetinthewater mentioned a diver should not be afraid of not having a reg in their mouth for 5 seconds or reconsider diving as a hobby, I suggested 30. It is not about the time it takes to execute a simple procedure, but how long one knows they can function without air, if and when an air share, or anything else, goes south.

I don't really miss buddy breathing because I've seen too many divers that just can't wait for the next breath, even though it's only a few seconds away. Some have the discipline to wait, others panic. It all depends on how long they can think clearly with a reg out of their mouth. It's a skill that is no longer considered important.

Diving is not just about how easily skills can be done, and the pretty fishes, but how well one can think and act when stressed, and not having air immediately available is stressed.

Bob

 

[Steelyeyes]

And don’t forget the Shearwater...

Well duh! Everyone knows that anything other than stiff black fins will ensure your untimely death.

 

[abnfrog]

@shoredvr , your right , I have known alec for 30 years through owning 3 different named dive shops ......hes always been a huckster.....I could say more but I wont......SB wouldn't like it most people in the GTA and surrounding areas know the stories , don't get me wrong I like the guy..... a lot don't , I take him from him and if he likes to do all these videos , his right ................ im sure there a reason hes not on here ......

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

................ im sure there a reason hes not on here ......

He'd get crucified for posting nonsense?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

@wetb4igetinthewater mentioned a diver should not be afraid of not having a reg in their mouth for 5 seconds or reconsider diving as a hobby, I suggested 30. It is not about the time it takes to execute a simple procedure, but how long one knows they can function without air, if and when an air share, or anything else, goes south.

I don't really miss buddy breathing because I've seen too many divers that just can't wait for the next breath, even though it's only a few seconds away. Some have the discipline to wait, others panic. It all depends on how long they can think clearly with a reg out of their mouth. It's a skill that is no longer considered important.

Diving is not just about how easily skills can be done, and the pretty fishes, but how well one can think and act when stressed, and not having air immediately available is stressed.

Bob

That reminds me of my IDC when being taught on how to perform/demo the free flowing regulator: we were taught to bend back the mouth piece to make it flat, tilt our heads, and slide the reg down our faces to sip and then back up to show that we were blowing bubbles*.

The rational for this was to ensure that people were not holding their breath for that minute. I agree, 5 seconds, 30, whatever, the person has plenty of time before they need to take in a breath.

The problem with this method is that no way in the world is anyone going to actually perform this skill if their regulator starts to free flow. They should just maintain one part of the mouthpiece in their mouth so that they can sip when they need. What we were taught was just nonsense.

 

[Bob DBF]

He'd get crucified for posting nonsense?

I doubt that, Scubaboard members are a polite bunch, although sometimes it has to be enforced, and Alex would have to defend his position. Now whether defending his position would be easier than being crucified Is another story. He has a right to his opinion, I just don't agree, others watching his videos may not have the experience to disagree, and might find other actually useful information.

I don't expect to see him here soon because he will no longer be the top dog he is on his own show. We won't know if he would be a positive influence here until he logs in and posts.



Bob

Occasionally has a positive attitude.

 

[FreeFlyFreak]

I have a BP/W primary donate setup, commonly called the streamlined open water configuration.
I like it, I trained with an Air2 so was primary donating from the get go.
I don't see the need for a longer hose outside of an overhead environment, but if you want to use it, I'm a dive and let dive kinda guy.

I did recently see another configuration that really intrigued me.

It was similar to the Streamlined OW config, but had no short hose.
The bungied reg was a left hander, on another under the arm hose. So it would be possible to donate/share either one.

I thought it was a really good idea.