Air2 AND octo?

[EireDiver606]

The reason I didn’t want to link anything is because the problem with them more-so than the design, I think is that it creates a less ideal form of gas sharing. It’s not as much as the quality of gas flow through the reg.

 

[boulderjohn]

What is PADIs take on a divers trim while in a gas sharing episode?

PADI does not dictate any specific method for air shares. Instructors are free to teach whatever method they wish, provided, of course, that it works.

When I taught OW classes, my feeling was that 90% of my students were going to rent gear for their first dives. In the classroom, I talked about all the different options they could use and described the pros and cons. I showed what I used (long hose and bungeed alternate) and explained why. In the pool and OW, we used what the shop provided, which is the standard rental kit they would find almost anywhere they went to dive.

 

[2airishuman]

Why don’t rec divers dive as safely as tech divers while still rec diving? Gas sharing with a long hose and bungees back up is much easier than 2 short hoses.

This is a genuine question. I think it’s just a mindset but if anyone has good info, I’d be happy to hear

I use a 60" (if I recall correctly) primary hose and a bungeed (necklaced) backup most of the time. I find that he 7' long hose is more difficult to manage on a boat, and don't believe it provides a safety benefit in open water.

 

[caruso]

What is PADIs take on a divers trim while in a gas sharing episode?

PADI requires a divers trim to be optimum and in good form, even in a life saving emergency. There's never an excuse for bad trim, especially when you're trying to conserve gas, and should the ascending buddy team be photographed, they want to set a good example.
.

 

[kelemvor]

Why don’t rec divers dive as safely as tech divers while still rec diving? Gas sharing with a long hose and bungees back up is much easier than 2 short hoses.

This is a genuine question. I think it’s just a mindset but if anyone has good info, I’d be happy to hear

It's a pretty easy answer. The gear and procedures that tech divers use are more expensive, and require extra effort to use. I'm summing up extra training, drills, etc there as extra effort. The procedures used by rec divers works with pretty much any gear except tech gear (depending on what exactly that is). It's easy to learn as pretty much all new divers learn it in the short open water course, and much of it is so simple that it can be successfully performed without regular drills to keep you fresh.

I think if that weren't true, you'd see rec divers drowning in droves. Running OOA seems to be somewhat common just based on the occasional post where it happened to someone or a poster saw it happen to another person.

Tech procedures are necessary to do technical dives safely. They aren't necessary to do rec dives safely, and there's hundreds of thousands of safely done rec dives every year (millions?) as evidence.

If that weren't true, then going to a standard open water class would be like lining up for a firing squad. It's not.

 

[boulderjohn]

PADI requires a divers trim to be optimum and in good form, even in a life saving emergency. There's never an excuse for bad trim, especially when you're trying to conserve gas, and should the ascending buddy team be photographed, they want to set a good example.
.

Is this a joke?

 

[2airishuman]

If they ascend with an Air 2 in their mouths, it is because they are sharing air with someone else during an OOA emergency.

No, it does not happen often, but when it does, you do need to be able to vent air from the BCD as you ascend, or else you and the buddy you are supposedly rescuing will have an uncontrolled ascent to add to your problems.

I can see where in that scenario it would be more convenient to have a pull dump but I do wonder how many divers consciously make the decision to get a BCD with a functioning pull dump, use it regularly and would think to use it under those conditions.

In general, Air2s are not marketed as stand-alone components. They are sold as a part of a BC that was designed around the idea of an Air2. The ones I have seen have shoulder dumps.

If you add an Air2 to a BC that isn't designed for it, you're going to have problems controlling your ascent unless you have the presence of mind to take it out of your mouth when you're venting your BC.

 

[EireDiver606]

PADI does not dictate any specific method for air shares. Instructors are free to teach whatever method they wish, provided, of course, that it works.

When I taught OW classes, my feeling was that 90% of my students were going to rent gear for their first dives. In the classroom, I talked about all the different options they could use and described the pros and cons. I showed what I used (long hose and bungeed alternate) and explained why. In the pool and OW, we used what the shop provided, which is the standard rental kit they would find almost anywhere they went to dive.

Thanks

 

[boulderjohn]

The gear and procedures that tech divers use are more expensive, and require extra effort to use. I'm summing up extra training, drills, etc there as extra effort.

If we are just talking about the regulator hose setup, this is absolutely not true. The only difference is the length of the hoses and where they go. I would argue that handing someone your primary regulator and pulling the alternate that is around the neck up to your mouth is easier than using the traditional octo setup.

I think if that weren't true, you'd see rec divers drowning in droves. Running OOA seems to be somewhat common just based on the occasional post where it happened to someone or a poster saw it happen to another person

Despite what you read on ScubaBoard, going OOA is pretty rare. I have been in the vicinity of an OOA situation exactly once in my life, and I have done a lot of dives in a lot of places.

The standard recreational system generally works well enough for those open water situations, so on those rare occasions, it will usually do the job. That is why I did not feel bad about teaching it, even though I prefer the tech approach in any situation.

My primary concern with the traditional octo setup is the fact that the octo is too likely to come loose and dangle during the dive, making it a potential problem to locate it in an OOA emergency. There was a drowning in the Netherlands about 8 years or so ago when a woman went OOA and her buddy's alternate had come loose and was hanging behind him when he tried to donate.

 

[rsingler]

I can confirm that on my SeaQuest Balance BCD I can simply pull on any part of the corrugated (2 part) hose (not on the regulator), which will then expand and pull on the internal cable and this procedure will allow gas to escape from the shoulder vent.

The reason this works for @caruso is this connection here:

With the AirSource in your mouth, you can still pull on the hose and actuate the wire pull dump.
The same is not true of the Air2 or SS1.
And the nice thing about Aqualung's device, is that this same disconnect can be used to remove the reg from the bcd and rinse in the sink with your other regs.
But there's always a downside...Aqualung's AirSource is a sophisticated balanced second stage with many more parts. It can breathe as smooth as silk. But it's a PITA to service and since most divers do NOT remove and maintain it as well as they should, it actually gunks up more often than simpler regs, in my experience.

You pays your money, and you gets your choice.