Air2 AND octo?

[kelemvor]

If we are just talking about the regulator hose setup, this is absolutely not true. The only difference is the length of the hoses and where they go. I would argue that handing someone your primary regulator and pulling the alternate that is around the neck up to your mouth is easier than using the traditional octo setup.

He mentioned long hose, so I assume he means the traditional 5-8 foot (depending on who you ask) long hose setup. I did the bungeed secondary thing for a while myself before switching to air2 so I could declutter. I don't see that as a tech diver thing, perhaps that's an error on my part.

 

[EireDiver606]

It's a pretty easy answer. The gear and procedures that tech divers use are more expensive, and require extra effort to use. I'm summing up extra training, drills, etc there as extra effort. The procedures used by rec divers works with pretty much any gear except tech gear (depending on what exactly that is). It's easy to learn as pretty much all new divers learn it in the short open water course, and much of it is so simple that it can be successfully performed without regular drills to keep you fresh.

I think if that weren't true, you'd see rec divers drowning in droves. Running OOA seems to be somewhat common just based on the occasional post where it happened to someone or a poster saw it happen to another person.

Tech procedures are necessary to do technical dives safely. They aren't necessary to do rec dives safely, and there's hundreds of thousands of safely done rec dives every year (millions?) as evidence.

If that weren't true, then going to a standard open water class would be like lining up for a firing squad. It's not.

It's a pretty easy answer. The gear and procedures that tech divers use are more expensive, and require extra effort to use. I'm summing up extra training, drills, etc there as extra effort. The procedures used by rec divers works with pretty much any gear except tech gear (depending on what exactly that is). It's easy to learn as pretty much all new divers learn it in the short open water course, and much of it is so simple that it can be successfully performed without regular drills to keep you fresh.

I think if that weren't true, you'd see rec divers drowning in droves. Running OOA seems to be somewhat common just based on the occasional post where it happened to someone or a poster saw it happen to another person.

Tech procedures are necessary to do technical dives safely. They aren't necessary to do rec dives safely, and there's hundreds of thousands of safely done rec dives every year (millions?) as evidence.

If that weren't true, then going to a standard open water class would be like lining up for a firing squad. It's not.

Kelemvor I’m sure you’re a good diver this isn’t aimed at you but everyone really.

People think that tech diving and rec diving are completely different. Well they are, but ....

Tech diving is just much more advanced rec diving involving decompression and maybe overhead environments.

If you take the same approach to rec diving as you would to serious technical diving, is that bad? No. Is it safer? Yes. Do you have more fun? Yes.

And you said technical diving gear is expensive. I’m not talking about expensive gear just the basic “tekky stuff “ like Wing backplate harness, etc.

Ireland is about at least 10 years behind everyone else in regards to diving and diving research. I got a comment that I “dive like a tekkie” (in an unusual tone). It’s like saying oh so you know how to trim essentially (when she couldn’t)I said so what?... is diving like a tekky a bad thing? No it definitely should be. Some mindsets I don’t understand.

My opinion on technical diving is that high skills are vital for serious dives. But maintaining and developing those high skills is not a bad thing, and will make your diving more fun and easier in the long run even if you don’t decide to go down a technical path.

It’s all about the mindset.

 

[rsingler]

My primary concern with the traditional octo setup is the fact that the octo is too likely to come loose and dangle during the dive, making it a potential problem to locate it in an OOA emergency.

+1!
What method do you recommend for securing an octo?
I've gone through four different retainers, and dislike all of them. I use a 2" SS ring now, for a small loop of octo hose, but it's not a clean setup.

 

[boulderjohn]

+1!
What method do you recommend for securing an octo?
I've gone through four different retainers, and dislike all of them. I use a 2" SS ring now, for a small loop of octo hose, but it's not a clean setup.

I haven't used an octo since I was required to do so while teaching OW students. In those days we used what I thought was the best method I had encountered--a stretchy rubber rectangle. Even though I preferred that to the methods I had used in the past, I still had to check and make sure that my students' octos were still in place before I would give them an OOA exercise. Frequently they were not.

That is why even though I really don't see the point of using an AIR 2 device, I at least see that advantage over a traditional octo--it is going to be where it is supposed to be if it is needed.

 

[Bob DBF]

Using a pull dump while you have an Air 2 in your mouth is not easily accomplished. The wire connecting the pin to the valve is at the Air 2, with no intermediate connections. Therefore, pulling on the hose does nothing. And if you pull on the hose to stretch the wire and open the dump, you risk pulling the reg out of your

I did not know that. My buddy's Air 2 had an intermediate connection, and could be dumped by pulling on the exhaust hose about half way up. It could have been a fix he made. I figured they were all made like that, since my Oceanic had that feature when it was bought new.


Bob

 

[Bob DBF]

What method do you recommend for securing an octo?

Trident Silicone Wrap-Through Regulator Octo Keeper Holder

Always worked well for me when I used that configuration, but are a pita to put the second back on after a practice.


Bob

 

[caruso]

I did not know that. My buddy's Air 2 had an intermediate connection, and could be dumped by pulling on the exhaust hose about half way up. It could have been a fix he made. I figured they were all made like that, since my Oceanic had that feature when it was bought new.


Bob

I bet you didn't read the whole thread Bob. If you had, you would have learned like I did that not all BCD dump valves are created equally.

 

[BDSC]

In general, Air2s are not marketed as stand-alone components. They are sold as a part of a BC that was designed around the idea of an Air2. The ones I have seen have shoulder dumps.

All my BC's have been Scubapro and all have had the shoulder dump. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure that I have ever used my inflator hose to dump air. Pretty much the only time I even have air in my BC is when I am waiting at the surface for my buddy if I jumped in first. I just pull the cord on my right side to dump air from the shoulder dump and down I go. Really never put any air in the BC until I'm back at the surface.

 

[caruso]

Really never put any air in the BC until I'm back at the surface.

You could probably remove the low pressure inflator hose from the regulator first stage since you don't use it all that much, get an air integrated wrist computer and be down to a one hose system.

 

[rsingler]

I think the subtlety here is those Air II equivalents with pull dumps that have a two-part cable . The cable is separated by a fitting in the middle that is attached to the hose halfway down, that allows using the pull dump at the same time as you are breathing from the regulator. Otherwise, in order to activate the pull dump, you have to remove the regulator from your mouth.
If you pull on the corrugated hose while breathing with a design without that intermediate attachment to the halfway point in the corrugated hose (e.g., Scubapro's design), you are just sliding the corrugated hose up and down the wire without activating the dump itself.

That whole technique of pulling on the hose generated a huge discussion here:
Pull Dumps — lose them