Agencies

[djanni]

Which is why you won't see a PADI OW class do a doff and don at the bottom of the pool. In that ALL gear is removed save swimsuit(in some cases this is an eye saving thing) and boots if worn. Then the student surfaces and within 30 seconds executes a dive, recovers the reg and proceeds to put all gear back on. This is usually done by pool session number three or four. First session yes is spent on swimming and skin diving skills exclusively and some may need this for the first 2 sessions. But it works in getting them comfortable as well as making sure they are in good enough shape to dive and will be safe around the water in general. We also do a bc musical chairs where students and an instructor remove bc and place them on the bottom 10 or more feet apart and on a given signal everyone moves to the next gear setup. We do this a few times and then at a thumbs up we put on whatever gear we happen to be on and execute a safe ascent. The confidence that these exercises impart on students is amazing. They teach decision making, how to deal with increased task loading, and making good choices. We have the freedom as Y instructors to challenge our students and build their skills and confidence before issuing a card. You don't get a card by swiping another.

Jim: My OW PADI Instructor required us to do a doff and don at the bottom of the pool.

 

[vicdiver656]

I was thinking the very same.....

That makes three of us.

 

[sweatfrog]

SEALs, Coast Guard rescue divers and other special military forces are trained to NAUI standards;

You guys were doing so well, until this statement. The military has it's own program. It's not a recreational certification. If an Instructor, teammate, or one of your classmates happens to be a recreational Instructor, then a recreational card might be applicable. Military divers are not trained to NAUI standards!

the US National Parks Service and NOAA divers receive NAUI training and certifications.

It depends on who's in charge at the time. I've seen certification cards from other agencies for NOAA divers. I'm sure the Parks Service is smart enough not to get into the "my agency is better than yours" crap.

 

[Hickdive]

Just to expand on that a bit, I think these are the years of founding for some of the agencies you are more likely to run in to:

1953 BSAC
.

1953 was also the year the Scottish Sub-Aqua Club (SSAC) was founded.

AIUI SSAC was inaugurated in April '53 whilst the British Sub-Aqua Club (BSAC) didn't hold its first meeting until October that year.

 

[leapfrog]

You guys were doing so well, until this statement. The military has it's own program. It's not a recreational certification. If an Instructor, teammate, or one of your classmates happens to be a recreational Instructor, then a recreational card might be applicable. Military divers are not trained to NAUI standards!
It depends on who's in charge at the time. I've seen certification cards from other agencies for NOAA divers. I'm sure the Parks Service is smart enough not to get into the "my agency is better than yours" crap.

Sweatfrog, I don't think you and I should insult each other or our own intelligence. Of course the miltary have their own programs. We (you and I) and everybody else on the Board knows this. As you have rightly said "It depends on who is in charge at the time". Now, I'm pretty sure that having made that statement, you know why NAUI themselves make this claim on their website, don't you?NAUI Worldwide Corporate Alliances

Or do you really think that NAUI is going to get itself in a lawsuit with the DOD and various other departments of the Federal Government plus have "angry frogmen" and "ninjas in black suits" come looking for them for making false statements?

 

[nereas]

...do people switch between agencies as they progress through the ranks ie. ow aow etc.

It is an extremely good idea to take a class from each of them. This will broaden your experiences and also give you first-hand experience.

For basic open water, your best bets are NAUI, SSI, or YMCA. Their manuals are the best, if you read at the college level, and their training will give you more dives, depending on the store.

For AOW, any of them (NAUI, SSI, YMCA, or PADI).

For rescue, SSI teaches the best course, with the best booklet.

For D/M, PADI teaches the best course, with the best booklet.

Regarding CPR/1st Aid, this course is fairly standard anywhere.

SSI has specific booklets on photography, if that is your addiction.

For tech-deco, NAUI has a stronger course than PADI, while many of the others do not. TDI-SDI also offers tech-deco, as does GUE at its higher levels and IANTD.

Shop around.

Remember also that seasoned instructors are normally better than new instructors.

 

[nereas]

Just to expand on that a bit, I think these are the years of founding for some of the agencies you are more likely to run in to:

1953 BSAC
1954 LA County
1958 CMAS
1959 YMCA
1960 NAUI
1966 PADI
1960’s PDIC
1969 ACUC
1970 SSI
1978 IDEA
1981 HSA
1982 NASE
1984 MDEA
1999 SDI

As Bob indicated, many of them go way back.

This is a great listing, so I am putting it into my database. Thanks!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Jim: My OW PADI Instructor required us to do a doff and don at the bottom of the pool.

Don, was this a full doff and don? PADI does do a bc off and on at the bottom. At least my ow class did. The YMCA requires all gear- mask, fins, weightbelt, and bc to be taken off. Placed on the bottom of the pool and then an ascent is affected without the gear to the surface. After getting a few breaths the diver then freedives to the gear, retrieves the reg and proceeds to put everything back on. With me as I demo it, the first thing after the reg is the weight belt. This gives me stability. Some people go for the mask and if they are not "sinkers" to begin with this usually results in the reg being ripped out of their mouth as they float up to the surface.

And I agree also that the Y program would be sverely diminished if it were condensed into a couple days. There is so much interaction between the student and instructor that for me was not present in my PADI class since alot of the material was learned at home on my own. I thought it was fine. But I remember a few days that I would have liked to have had someone explain some things to me. It would have made it much easier.

Tuesday night a young lady in the class I'm currently teaching started to have a little difficulty with the dive table concepts. She's 13. It took me all of 2 minutes to put an example up on the board that caused the lights to go on and insured that the homework I emailed the group will not cause problems. Since we are free to design our lesson plans( there are guidelines and I use them) but I'm allowed to add material from any source to get the lesson across. As long as standards are not violated and safety is not compromised I can cite PADI, NAUI, SDI, CIA, etc to be sure the student has a firm grasp of the lesson being taught. For physiology I use anatomical charts purchased from a store that usually has school teachers as customers. These are not full on med school grade but have all the detail necessary to explain embolisms, bends, expansion injuries and illustrate where the bubbles accumulate and grow to cause the pain that causes people to contort into various conditions trying to relieve it.

 

[sweatfrog]

Sweatfrog, I don't think you and I should insult each other or our own intelligence. Of course the miltary have their own programs. We (you and I) and everybody else on the Board knows this. As you have rightly said "It depends on who is in charge at the time". Now, I'm pretty sure that having made that statement, you know why NAUI themselves make this claim on their website, don't you?NAUI Worldwide Corporate Alliances

That's quite a marketing claim. It also proves that no matter which agency is being discussed, they are all out to get more divers for that agency. Since any of the majors can make this same claim, it shows that marketing is a driving force for NAUI, just as much as any other agency.

As for everyone on the board knowing this information, I don't think that's an accurate statement. Some things are funny, but this needed to be clarified.

People on the Board also need to know that NAUI is a democracy. Each member has one vote and for NAUI to get a concensus on anything is like pulling teeth. The reason I'm bringing this up, is that one poster was talking about the RSTC. Any changes to the NAUI doctrine have to be brought to the membership to approve. I'm sure the RSTC would welcome NAUI with open arms, but any change for an 'A' type scuba instructor creates strife within the ranks. For NAUI to grow, (besides in a few geographical areas) a position for someone who can make decisions on behalf of the membership, at the top level, could be created. LOL

The best way to change something is when you are working with the system.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

People on the Board also need to know that NAUI is a democracy. Each member has one vote and for NAUI to get a concensus on anything is like pulling teeth. The reason I'm bringing this up, is that one poster was talking about the RSTC. Any changes to the NAUI doctrine have to be brought to the membership to approve. I'm sure the RSTC would welcome NAUI with open arms, but any change for an 'A' type scuba instructor creates strife within the ranks. For NAUI to grow, (besides in a few geographical areas) a position for someone who can make decisions on behalf of the membership, at the top level, could be created. LOL

More nonsense ... the Board of Directors makes those decisions. "Democracy" in this case means that members vote for the BoD.

I have no doubt the RSTC would welcome NAUI with open arms. But what makes you think NAUI would welcome the RSTC? There's no advantage to them joining the organization ... so why would they?

You sure seem to have a lot of misinformation about NAUI ... out of curiosity, what's your affiliation with the organization?

I'm coming up on six years as a member of NAUI, and in that time I've seen plenty of innovation and growth. I've also found it easy to access and talk to whomever at NAUI headquarters I've wanted to contact.

The best way to change something is when you are working with the system.

... which is what makes NAUI a great organization to teach for ... every member IS working within the system ... NAUI encourages participation by its members. That's how changes occur within NAUI.

As to working with the RSTC ... I prefer NAUI's higher standards.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)