Advanced Open Water Disappointment

[Forbin's Descent]

I'm not sure how rampant it is. But to the extent it exists, it's because people like you gladly take shops up on the offer of paying for the card and not for the training. Not sure why you would do that. You were had.

Oh my God, you made me crack up so hard. My wife thinks I'm nuts. She's like "what are you laughing so hard at."

I was going to say I didn't gladly do it but then when I started thinking about it and cracking up I decided I would gladly do it again because I never see him, the instructors he's conned into working for him or his students off their knees or the 20' platform. I don't even know why they wear fins. Well I know why he has the students wear them: so he can sell them his exorbitantly overpriced gear. I think I made myself better off by just taking the card.

Holy crap I did get had. It's embarrassing I was so gullible. But on the bright side I met my main diving mentor in the shop so that was worth the $450 I guess. I'm just thankful I got smart pretty quick and stopped there and moved on before he conned me into paying for rescue and "Master Diver."

Holy crap the whole thing is so comical looking back on it. hahahahahaha. I think I am going to wear my snorkel on my dive tomorrow for old times sake hahahahahaha

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Where is Shambala?

 

[Forbin's Descent]

Where is Shambala?

A gigantic cavern under the Gobi Desert that has a replica of every evolving human being. And when that replica begins to light up or glow (meaning you are cleaning up your act and becoming more spiritual minded or raising your consciousness to a higher level), there is point where your replica gets bright enough to warrant a spiritual teacher being sent to you.

 

[Dan G]

I disagree. It's gatekeeping. The costs of silly certifications are a financial barrier to folks wanting to enter the sport. Look at rock climbing and mountaineering. No silly certifications. I learned to climb by just climbing. In fact, they may even be hindering the sport by selling stupid. I mean Dive Against Debris Diver and Shark Conservation Diver. Come On!!!!

While the comparison between diving and climbing works in some ways, it does not work in this comparison. I am not defending how cert agencies do business or quality control. Nor am I defending all the specialty certs that seem superfluous.

Rock climbing (and ice climbing) has a natural deterrent that keeps people from over extending their boundaries too early. It becomes quite crystal clear almost immediately that you can get seriously injured or killed while climbing your first pitch or two. Gravity is an amazing equalizer. It is much more difficult to realize all the significant dangers in diving since many are invisible. Also, a beginner climber can top rope with very little gear and even learn to lead a route with fixed protection with just a bit more.

Interestingly, is that when reading "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" one of the most frequent causes for serious accident or death is "exceeding abilities." Those who survive their folly (I've been there) get wiser.

 

[pauldw]

I have Wilderness First Responder and Swiftwater Rescue which covers most of what's in there…

Having taken all three, I disagree.

 

[pauldw]

Its a real cert....not sure how much of a "course" it is.

That is why it’s so interesting to hear people criticizing the course. None of you knows what’s in it.

First of all, it's fun. Some is just for fun, like the manual going over zombies through history, how to avoid infection, and so forth. And like dressing/using makeup like a zombie in preparation for the dive. But then there are what are essentially practice exercises in buoyancy, navigation, search and recovery, underwater photography, rescue and emergency care, and so forth. All of which are funner than you'd expect because while you're searching for zombie gas bottles on the bottom, zombies are attempting to find and tag you underwater, and one dive buddy is trying to get lift bags on the bottles while the other is fending off zombies with an air ring gun (I don't know that all classes use an air ring gun). There's trying to sneak a photo of a zombie, locating and surfacing and doing first aid on a scientist who may have the cure or may be turning into a zombie. Underwater communication. Stuff like that. Some review, some maybe new, but mostly having fun. A lot more fun than a lot of diving.

 

[boulderjohn]

That is why it’s so interesting to hear people criticizing the course. None of you knows what’s in it.

• First of all, it's fun. Some is just for fun, like the manual going over zombies through history, how to avoid infection, and so forth. And like dressing/using makeup like a zombie in preparation for the dive. But then there are what are essentially practice exercises in buoyancy, navigation, search and recovery, underwater photography, rescue and emergency care, and so forth. All of which are funner than you'd expect because while you're searching for zombie gas bottles on the bottom, zombies are attempting to find and tag you underwater, and one dive buddy is trying to get lift bags on the bottles while the other is fending off zombies with an air ring gun (I don't know that all classes use an air ring gun). There's trying to sneak a photo of a zombie, locating and surfacing and doing first aid on a scientist who may have the cure or may be turning into a zombie. Underwater communication. Stuff like that. Some review, some maybe new, but mostly having fun. A lot more fun that a lot of diving.

Criticism of courses like this, in which instructors offer fun classes that teach skills along the way, is typical of the great ScubaBoard Paradox. Participants agree on these two fundamental beliefs about scuba instruction:

• No one should choose to be a scuba instructor, because they don't earn enough money to make it worthwhile.
• Scuba instructors should never offer continuing education classes that the some divers might wish to take. Doing so is a nasty "money grab." Continuing education should be provided for free, and it should never be fun.

 

[Forbin's Descent]

Criticism of courses like this, in which instructors offer fun classes that teach skills along the way, is typical of the great ScubaBoard Paradox. Participants agree on these two fundamental beliefs about scuba instruction:

• No one should choose to be a scuba instructor, because they don't earn enough money to make it worthwhile.
• Scuba instructors should never offer continuing education classes that the some divers might wish to take. Doing so is a nasty "money grab." Continuing education should be provided for free, and it should never be fun.

See now this is a closer example of Black and White thinking you were referring to earlier. I am a participant and believe neither of these things. (insert fancy Latin phrases and quotes from leadership books here)

 

[boulderjohn]

See now this is a closer example of Black and White thinking you were referring to earlier. I am a participant and believe neither of these things. (insert fancy Latin phrases and quotes from leadership books here)

I never said all people believe both parts of the paradox, but many clearly do.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I never said all people believe both parts of the paradox, but many clearly do.

No John. No one believes it. You just believe they do.

And this won't be the last time you post this either.

People have to accept the fact that there is are serious shortcomings to some percentage of training. What is this percentage? Who knows? But the anecdotal evidence is an indication that it does exist.