OP
Arkman
Contributor
I got busy prepairing for my weekend of diving Lake Superior and then diving. I can't believe how much this thread has gown since then. I would have liked to have quoted and commented on a lot of these posts but there are just too many.
From my point of view, as a pretty inexperienced diver, we've got an industry full of mediocre agencies, shops, and instructors. That's not to say that they are all bad. I'm sure there are a lot of good ones, I just really haven't met many.
There has been a lot of back and forth about getting training or just figuring it out for yourself, researching, and diving. A lot of comments about getting a buddy and going diving. While I believe that to be a great way improve your skills, practicing poor technique is really only going to make great at doing thing poorly. Unfortunatly I live in an area where the diving community is relatively small. There are certainly divers out there but not as many as other areas. I have also found that a lot of divers are really not that enjoyable to dive with. I'm not sure what it is, but there are a lot of people with big egos that think they know everything - with 20 dives. Or, there are a lot of people that are fine with the limited skills they have and don't really want to progress. I guess that is fine for them as long as they are safe and won't damage the environment. That's just not where I'm at. I want to learn and grow as a diver. I just haven't found much of that. I have one good buddy who is similar to me, but neither of us KNOW what we're doing. So it is the blind leading the blind. We'll get there but we could do 20 dives working on stuff that one good instructor could do in a dive or two. But, we'll do it. We'll keep diving and slowly getting better - hopefully.
I agree with many people on here. If you have a bad experience - SPEAK UP, I'm glad I did. We'll see what comes of it. Probably nothing. But the more people do, the more we'll drive change. It seems like there are a lot of people that are just fine with bad instruction continuing because that is what they got, so everyone should. In diving and in life. That's not me, I try to work for a better life for everyone around me than I've had (not that it's been bad, my life is pretty great). But why wouldn't you want your kids or people around you to have it better? I think this is a problem in our culture (american). There is this attitude of "I had it hard, so should you." If it gets better for them, it gets better for me!
There are two common saying that I think about often.
1. "You don't know what you don't know" - It's hard to know what questions to ask when you've got limited knowledge about a subject. You make mistakes because you don't know what you don't know. The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know. When looking for classes in diving, I looked at our local shops. Assuming that PADI has standards so the shop will do those standards and I'll learn something. Turns out PADI's standards are pretty low, and the shop didn't even meet those. Now I know what questions to ask the next time I want to do training. This makes me think of Einstein's circle of knowledge quote. Don't ever think you know everything about a subject. You don't.
“As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.”
― Albert Einstein
2. "Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better" - I'm pretty sure this is a quote from Maya Angelou. I think it's a pretty simple concept. Once you learn something you've done is wrong, do better. Treated someone poorly because you were a dumb kid? Do better. This is how change works. Learn from your mistakes and do better, make amends if neccessary. The more we can do this as a people, both diving and in general, the better off the world will be.
I've learned a lot from reading this thread. I've also learned that there are some of you all I'd love to dive with and some probably not so much.
At the end of the day I think my opinion is still that an instructor should still work to teach the student something in a class. There is no reason for a person like me to sign up for a class and get no instruction even though the class met standards. I think if you want to be an instructor of anything, diving or anything else, you should want to teach. So if you have a student that signs up for a class that they are over qualified for. Find something you can teach them. In my case, I wasn't over qualified. I'm sure if he gave a ****, he could have taught me a lot. Probably with very little effort because I was hungry to learn.
If anyone is in Minnesota and wants to go diving that isn't an a$$hat, I'd love to hear from you. It would be great to meet more people that are fun to dive with!
From my point of view, as a pretty inexperienced diver, we've got an industry full of mediocre agencies, shops, and instructors. That's not to say that they are all bad. I'm sure there are a lot of good ones, I just really haven't met many.
There has been a lot of back and forth about getting training or just figuring it out for yourself, researching, and diving. A lot of comments about getting a buddy and going diving. While I believe that to be a great way improve your skills, practicing poor technique is really only going to make great at doing thing poorly. Unfortunatly I live in an area where the diving community is relatively small. There are certainly divers out there but not as many as other areas. I have also found that a lot of divers are really not that enjoyable to dive with. I'm not sure what it is, but there are a lot of people with big egos that think they know everything - with 20 dives. Or, there are a lot of people that are fine with the limited skills they have and don't really want to progress. I guess that is fine for them as long as they are safe and won't damage the environment. That's just not where I'm at. I want to learn and grow as a diver. I just haven't found much of that. I have one good buddy who is similar to me, but neither of us KNOW what we're doing. So it is the blind leading the blind. We'll get there but we could do 20 dives working on stuff that one good instructor could do in a dive or two. But, we'll do it. We'll keep diving and slowly getting better - hopefully.
I agree with many people on here. If you have a bad experience - SPEAK UP, I'm glad I did. We'll see what comes of it. Probably nothing. But the more people do, the more we'll drive change. It seems like there are a lot of people that are just fine with bad instruction continuing because that is what they got, so everyone should. In diving and in life. That's not me, I try to work for a better life for everyone around me than I've had (not that it's been bad, my life is pretty great). But why wouldn't you want your kids or people around you to have it better? I think this is a problem in our culture (american). There is this attitude of "I had it hard, so should you." If it gets better for them, it gets better for me!
There are two common saying that I think about often.
1. "You don't know what you don't know" - It's hard to know what questions to ask when you've got limited knowledge about a subject. You make mistakes because you don't know what you don't know. The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know. When looking for classes in diving, I looked at our local shops. Assuming that PADI has standards so the shop will do those standards and I'll learn something. Turns out PADI's standards are pretty low, and the shop didn't even meet those. Now I know what questions to ask the next time I want to do training. This makes me think of Einstein's circle of knowledge quote. Don't ever think you know everything about a subject. You don't.
“As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.”
― Albert Einstein
2. "Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better" - I'm pretty sure this is a quote from Maya Angelou. I think it's a pretty simple concept. Once you learn something you've done is wrong, do better. Treated someone poorly because you were a dumb kid? Do better. This is how change works. Learn from your mistakes and do better, make amends if neccessary. The more we can do this as a people, both diving and in general, the better off the world will be.
I've learned a lot from reading this thread. I've also learned that there are some of you all I'd love to dive with and some probably not so much.
At the end of the day I think my opinion is still that an instructor should still work to teach the student something in a class. There is no reason for a person like me to sign up for a class and get no instruction even though the class met standards. I think if you want to be an instructor of anything, diving or anything else, you should want to teach. So if you have a student that signs up for a class that they are over qualified for. Find something you can teach them. In my case, I wasn't over qualified. I'm sure if he gave a ****, he could have taught me a lot. Probably with very little effort because I was hungry to learn.
If anyone is in Minnesota and wants to go diving that isn't an a$$hat, I'd love to hear from you. It would be great to meet more people that are fun to dive with!
