Advanced Open Water Disappointment

[Angelo Farina]

Internal audits by the training companies for starters. Regional teams doing unannounced visits to classes by these certified instructors to make sure standards are being followed. Do we want to buy regulators from manufacturers that don’t do QC/QA? Why should training be any different?

When I was an active CMAS instructor (1978-1990), we were continuosly evaluated.
At the end of each course, an external examiner was sent from another town, testing both students and instructors. Every minor deviance from standards was sacked and reported to the national technical commission.
Typically once per year, or even twice, we had to travel to Genoa or to Rome for a technical update meeting, typically involving also some tests in a pool.
This ensured strict adherence to standards and that all instructors were kept updated with the latest findings, skills, equipment.
It was a time of quick innovation, both technically and didactically.

 

[L13]

I'm not only trained, just not by PADI or dive agencies, I am experienced. Been part of numerous rescues including one where I was the sole rescuer performing CPR and saved the person and another that I was part of a team performing CPR of a drowning victim that survived. We also practice scenerios regulary on the river. Other than an S drill I don't see divers regulary keeping their skills sharp. They get the card and done. Believe me if **** goes down, you want me around, not somebody "trained" by my local LDS.

That is an awful lot of experience for less than 24 dives, or is your profile out of date already?

 

[Forbin's Descent]

That is an awful lot of experience for less than 24 dives, or is your profile out of date already?

Those rescues are from whitewater paddling and when I was sole rescuer it was in an urban environment. But yea I have way more than 24 dives. I lost count.

 

[Forbin's Descent]

I'll repeat: the value in the rescue class is the in-water water work, NOT the book work.

Yep and I have plenty of in water experience with rescues and am formally trained. Just not by a dive agency. I am taking the SDI course mostly as a refresher as I haven’t had formal training in some time and believe those are skills that need to remain sharp.

 

[BoltSnap]

PADI is probably one major reason why SCUBA diving is so popular today and for that reason manufacturers of SCUBA gear have had a larger target population than say back in the 50s and 60s when this hobby was just taking off.

If PADI and other non-club agencies had not started and the world was taught by clubs only, then gear would be even more expensive than it is today due to less people diving and the cost of manufacturing to an even smaller population of divers than it is today.

We would be in stone age still as far as diving and diving training if it were clubs only. Clubs were an impediment in diving becoming popular. Very cliquish and elitist.

The diving world is much better with all involved in the scene.

 

[Searcaigh]

We would be in stone age still as far as diving and diving training if it were clubs only. Clubs were an impediment in diving becoming popular. Very cliquish and elitist.

I agree that some clubs are cliquish and elitist but not all, it's a very "English" thing to some degree, but I know where you are coming from.

When I was in Saudi I was a member of a BSAC club in Jeddah that originated in the hospital where I worked. There was no issue on which agency you qualified under, but of course the members were mainly British and a few colonials. We did a lot of diving.

When I moved to Dubai I was introduced to the local BSAC club and probably went to the their clubhouse on the wrong night, but they didn't impress me as people I wanted to dive with. About 15 years later I was diving a lot with some of the BSAC techies who were a distinct sub section of that same club and much more welcoming.

 

[Celt]

We would be in stone age still as far as diving and diving training if it were clubs only. Clubs were an impediment in diving becoming popular. Very cliquish and elitist.

The diving world is much better with all involved in the scene.

Definitely during the early years, very like the yacht club. Snobs we called them and steered clear of them, But they had the gear. Nice and shiny when we were trying to cobble together bits and pieces.
But we did a lot more diving.

 

[Sebs]

Because it is my experience that the in person training for SCUBA is typically a small fraction of what's in the standards and manuals and I've completed book work for two different agencies.

If I remember correctly, you got your AOW without doing any of the AOW dives and got your drysuit cert because you bought a drysuit.

Maybe you should find a shop/instructor that is actually competent/not grossly negligent before making any claims as to the in-person training of the scuba industry? FWIW I've trained with 5 different instructors in my short scuba career and while one I did not like on a personal level, they all covered the standards and more in the water.

 

[berndo]

We would be in stone age still as far as diving and diving training if it were clubs only. Clubs were an impediment in diving becoming popular. Very cliquish and elitist.

Clubs are open to everybody and make it possible for people with less money to dive also as many instructors donate their time and people do volunteer work to fix stuff and to run youth groups etc.
That's the exact opposite of 'elitist'. They're not more 'cliquish' than groups that form around some instructors or shops or because they are fans of some agency etc. gue people for example are actually are cliquey and elitist because their system was specifically designed that way. Clubs are not like that at all.
The standard of training is probably higher on average than the commercial PADI and SSI classes.

 

[Forbin's Descent]

If I remember correctly, you got your AOW without doing any of the AOW dives and got your drysuit cert because you bought a drysuit.

Maybe you should find a shop/instructor that is actually competent/not grossly negligent before making any claims as to the in-person training of the scuba industry? FWIW I've trained with 5 different instructors in my short scuba career and while one I did not like on a personal level, they all covered the standards and more in the water.

Four instructors myself.

It’s not just me. This is rampant in the industry. That’s why these threads continue to persist.