Question Advanced gas planning for complex cave dive (upstream/downstream)

[L13]

@steinbil according to your profile you have 50 some dives.

Ad Hominem. I have more dives than him (and less than you). That doesn't mean than he doesn't know more than me about some things, maybe even most things. (speaking of which, I need to update my dive count on SB).

Dive count has no relevance to whether secrecy and gate keeping is a good or bad idea. If his profile showed a dive count greater than yours, would you change your position? If someone with a greater dive count than yours agreed with him would you change your position? If not, then your agree that dive count is irrelevant, and used it Ad Hominem.

Contact a cave instructor and ask what he or she thinks about this, maybe you believe that person.

I'm in regular conversation with the cave instructor that I currently intend to take my cave training with when I get there (budget and time limited). He has no problem with me researching cave diving info on the internet. That is part of why I like him. Despite having a tremendous amount of experience and knowledge about diving, he doesn't have the hubris to think he knows it all. He treats ideas I bring from elsewhere as either a chance to teach (if he still thinks it's wrong after considering it) or a chance for him to learn (and for me to be more comfortable with the idea since it is consistent with his existing experience and knowledge).

 

[tomfcrist]

There are 2 trains of thought here.

1) we don’t talk about fight club.

2) we talk freely about fight club so that folks who are interested in it understand how bad they are going to get their ass whooped

 

[lostsheep]

Go back and read what I said instead of making stuff up. I was clearly talking about steinbil and the l13 person.

My mistake is that I keep trying to overexplain simple points to people who are unwilling or unable to understand. Or just argue in bad faith.

Welcome to the internet, must be your first time.

And no, I’m not going back to reread your posts, you’ve said the same thing ad nauseum.

 

[L13]

Go back and read what I said instead of making stuff up. I was clearly talking about steinbil and the l13 person.

How much training have I had in cave diving? How much experience?

My mistake is that I keep trying to overexplain simple points to people who are unwilling or unable to understand.

I completely understand(I think):

You believe secret knowledge and gate keeping are the solution to the danger of incomplete knowledge on the internet.

If 'm wrong about that please correct me.

Or just argue in bad faith.

Please explain.

 

[Manatee Diver]

I don't think keeping this forum closed is a good idea. Lots of students and potential students ask questions.

 

[L13]

I don't think keeping this forum closed is a good idea. Lots of students and potential students ask questions.

AW HELL!!!

I just saw you have no dives and are uncertified according to your profile. And all this time I've been respecting your posts!

I'm so lost!

 

[L13]

I’m beginning to think you’re a bot based off of tone, frequency, and content of your posts.

As to the frequency, I think both @berndo and I might both be guilty of this:

 

[steinbil]

@steinbil according to your profile you have 50 some dives. Has it ever crossed your mind that may not know what you're talking about?
I'm not trying to attack you. I'm just under the impression that you read some stuff online and watched a couple of videos and now are way overestimating you're undstanding. I'm also not under the impression that you're in good faith trying to understand what I've tried to explain severarl times now.
Contact a cave instructor and ask what he or she thinks about this, maybe you believe that person.

Maybe there is a language barrier here or some kind of misunderstanding. I honestly don't understand what you think I'm pretending to know anything about. I can assure you that none of my posts have been in bad faith.

Can you please clarify what you mean when you say I "may not know what I'm talking about"? I have tried expressing exactly that I don't know a lot of things, gas planning for cave diving is among them, which is why I'm asking questions, fully aware that I don't know the answer.

The only thing I've expressed my opinion about is whether this knowledge should be kept from uncertified divers or not. And even on this point I've tried to express uncertainty, that I don't know what the best solution is.

I think you have tried to make the point that a little knowledge is dangerous and can lead people to do things they shouldn't with a false sense of confidence in their minimal knowledge and that it's better if this knowledge is only spread through training. Is that accurate? If so, as I have said before, you clearly have a point and of course you might be right. I don't know. Do you, being a cave diver, have a better understanding of whether or not this knowledge should be protected, than me? Quite possibly. If it was up to just the two of us, I'd be happy to defer to you. Are there other people that might have a better understanding than you? I would hope that experienced cave instructors would have considered this more than me, and I'm happy to defer to them as well.

My point is, I'm asking to learn, and I'm also challenging/questioning to learn. The best instructors/educators I've come across welcome these questions and challenges and see them as a teaching opportunity or a learning opportunity.

 

[Manatee Diver]

AW HELL!!!

I just saw you have no dives and are uncertified according to your profile. And all this time I've been respecting your posts!

I'm so lost!

I don't even like water.

Now if you want to talk about Gunpla, I'm an expert at that, even though I haven't even finished assembling my first model.

 

[Wibble]

Diving is one of those activities where you never stop learning, especially when doing advanced diving. Most people will say that the more diving they do, the more there is to learn. Continuous learning for want of a better phrase.

Insufficient information because it’s kept behind locked doors and managed by a few high priests is not conducive to continuous learning. In fact it could be argued that it makes diving more dangerous.

Even stupid people might learn more with wider information availability. Arguably "deaths" might be prevented.