Question Advanced gas planning for complex cave dive (upstream/downstream)

[PfcAJ]

I didn't say polling this thread, I said cave divers. Obviously the OW divers don't like what I said.
Why would you want you give untrained people a lesson in something they should be doing while there is a high change they misunderstand the info.
It seem that we just had a fatality because the victim 'learned' how to do a traverse from the internet instead of in a class. Trying to avoid people killing themselves is a pretty good reason.

I find it pretty callous to say something like this.

BTW: I find it pretty ironic that AJ of all people wants the cave diving forum to be a free for all but wants the DIR forum to be restricted.

When did I say that? If you go back a little, I was one of the folks who advocated for the dir forum to no longer be opt in.

 

[PfcAJ]

I’m a little entertained at the notion that “cave instructors” are somehow the end all of cave education.

There are some absurd things being taught. Talking about things is how people learn and refine.

As for someone untrained learning a bit about these things, it’s very easy for one of these questions to go from “I don’t know how this is done” to “wow I don’t know sh1t about 4uck I should take a class”.

 

[berndo]

There are some absurd things being taught. Talking about things is how people learn and refine.

Yeah, but you're not going to fix it by explaining how to cave dive to OW diver. I don't really care if it's restricted or not but posting 'how to cave dive' for an OW audience is asinine.
People like the dad who took his kid into EN on christmas didn't think 'oh wow, I have no clue' they think 'great know I know who cave divers do it'.
We know for a fact that people to that.

 

[berndo]

I can assure you that none of my posts have been in bad faith.

I didn't think you're arguing in bad faith, the other guy is. You just don't understand. Go and read a few dozen cave diving accident reports.

 

[PfcAJ]

Yeah, but you're not going to fix it by explaining how to cave dive to OW diver. I don't really care if it's restricted or not but posting 'how to cave dive' for an OW audience is asinine.
People like the dad who took his kid into EN on christmas didn't think 'oh wow, I have no clue' they think 'great know I know who cave divers do it'.
We know for a fact that people to that.

I wonder if their opinion of themselves would have changed if they engaged in dialogue with more experienced people…

 

[berndo]

I wonder if their opinion of themselves would have changed if they engaged in dialogue with more experienced people…

Possibly if they had engaged. Most people just read or watch videos.

 

[PfcAJ]

Possibly if they had engaged. Most people just read or watch videos.

Ok so…. If they had engaged the outcome might be different but also we should limit access so people can’t engage.

I think I get it now. Thanks.

 

[berndo]

Ok so…. If they had engaged the outcome might be different but also we should limit access so people can’t engage.

I think I get it now. Thanks.

This 'IF' you're invoking is a pretty big if. The dad from EN or the guys from Manatee, could have 'engaged' but they choose not to, obviously because they thought they didn't need to.
It's astounding to me that you seem to be in favour of online cave training.

 

[PfcAJ]

This 'IF' you're invoking is a pretty big if. The dad from EN or the guys from Manatee, could have 'engaged' but they choose not to, obviously because they thought they didn't need to.
It's astounding to me that you seem to be in favour of online cave training.

So they chose not to, but you want to preemptively make the decision for everyone else who may want to.

“Online cave training”. Nice hyperbole.

 

[Wibble]

Yeah, but you're not going to fix it by explaining how to cave dive to OW diver. I don't really care if it's restricted or not but posting 'how to cave dive' for an OW audience is asinine.
People like the dad who took his kid into EN on christmas didn't think 'oh wow, I have no clue' they think 'great know I know who cave divers do it'.
We know for a fact that people to that.

Thank goodness OW divers can't find out about sky diving, motorcycling, shooting guns, rock climbing, caving ...

Again, it's up to the individual to take responsibility for their decisions. The Darwin Award awaits suitable candidates.

Objects in this mirror may be closer than they seem... crash. Damn, I wos readin the notice wot didn't tell me to only read it if stationary.