Action to be taken on dive flag regulation. PLEASE READ!

[Damselfish]

I guess i just don't see a probem here.

If you're close enough to shore that the town has jurisdiction, carry a dive flag and stay away from other people's traps.

Am I missing something?

Terry

Several things.

The lobster traps can be so close together than it's not possible to stay that far away. The vis is usually low enough that you can't always know anyway. And it's hard enough for one person in a group to tow a flag through all the lines from the traps, never mind both people or everyone in a group towing flags and avoiding tangling with the traps and each other. (In my experience there's a division of labor with your buddy around here - one person tows the flag, and the other helps watch for snags and undoes if it gets caught.)

The person who thought this up either hasn't a clue, or maybe worse does have a clue and is trying to discourage diving.

 

[Damselfish]

dup

 

[scubabear6]

I guess i just don't see a probem here.

If you're close enough to shore that the town has jurisdiction, carry a dive flag and stay away from other people's traps.

Am I missing something?

Terry

Being from the Great Lakes myself I can understand what you are missing. Out there divers are a welcomed group even Catered to in spots. But alas out here it's different, were considered scurg by most.
1st part of your statement nobody can really tell us who has jurisdiction to what point. Does the town have it only to the low tide mark or 20 miles off there shore? This state is under rules developed in the 1600's. The state says 1 flag per diver/group of divers and stay within 25 feet of it, does the town have a right to over rule this as long as it doesn't lesson the restrictions? This is also a Commenwealth and that mucks the law even more.
2nd part of your statement about staying 25 feet away from traps and trap warps. In 10 to 15 feet vis on a good day and these trap warps all over you can see how it becomes almost impossible to stay 25 feet away. This is all about they don't want anybody diving in there ocean or be on there beaches.

 

[Rick2]

Sadly, I think the "perps" of this new law are not clueless--this stinks of harrassment. Plain & Simple...Please support your local dive club, shop and the Bay State Council in preserving our rights.

 

[ScubaSarus]

Whats happened in the past to controversial laws is that as mentioned previously, they have to be challenged and then brought to a judge to rule on the law.

What we need is a fall girl or guy to break the law in a way that doesn't break the state law and the challenge the law in court. So someone needs to get fined, refuse to pay the fine, and then get arrested. This is were we pich in and get a lawyer to represent this person and make sure the person is not treated harshley in jail. Thats all I can say as laws need to be challenged as laws can be made but can't always be enforced. Then we bring the media into the scene and bring attention to the constitutionality of the law. This needs to be challenged in higher courts if possible and I don't know if it can but should be if they can put a person in jail for violating the law.

So far the law has worked as its brought our attention to staying away from traps more so than usual. If I was diving, I would not think twice about looking at a trap and I would now avoid it like the plague. A flag for each diver could be so the lobsterman know were each and every diver is down there I can only see a flag for each diver making it harder for boats to navigate as a groupd of 5 divers 10 ft apart will have a 50 ft line of flags instead of 1 flag. Do this at FT Wetherill and a boat would never get back to the boat launch.

 

[christine1223]

I guess i just don't see a probem here.

If you're close enough to shore that the town has jurisdiction, carry a dive flag and stay away from other people's traps.

Am I missing something?

Terry

Have you dove Lane's Cove, Magnolia, or Plum Cove just to name a few? There is no way to leave shore without being 10 feet away from a trap... They are lined up everywhere!!!

 

[christine1223]

Several things.

The lobster traps can be so close together than it's not possible to stay that far away. The vis is usually low enough that you can't always know anyway. And it's hard enough for one person in a group to tow a flag through all the lines from the traps, never mind both people or everyone in a group towing flags and avoiding tangling with the traps and each other. (In my experience there's a division of labor with your buddy around here - one person tows the flag, and the other helps watch for snags and undoes if it gets caught.)

The person who thought this up either hasn't a clue, or maybe worse does have a clue and is trying to discourage diving.

Heres to that!!!

 

[mello-yellow]

P.S. UPDATE; The BSC has contracted Attorney Cohen to represent us in the up coming case against the City of Gloucester. We've set up an informational meeting with Mr. Cohen for August 9, 7:30 PM at the Neptune's Clubhouse, corner of Quarry and Joyce Streets, Quincy. Although all are welcome, space dictates that dive shops, charter Captains, and clubs send representatives.
Another meeting has been scheduled with Mr. Cohen for the general public on August 14. We're trying to get the Aquarium, but that's not definite.

For those interested in contributing to this cause, the Council cannot handle Pay Pal or Credit Cards, the key to our survival has been being as "low-maintenance" as possible

Checks should be made payable to Bay State Council of Divers and sent to;

Bay State Council of Divers c/o South Shore Neptune's, P.O. Box 518, Quincy, Mass. 02169

Angelo Correnti can be reached at 781-391-1034 or correntibe@aol.com

Can you post Attorney Cohen's phone number? If I get arrested in Gloucester, I'd want to call him!

 

[Mr.X]

I may know why divers are not liked in Cape Anne. After our dive a Folley cove we went to the small tiny seafood restaurant on the north side you know the one with the restroom so small your knees touch the wall when sitting down. Well my buddy ScubaBills had to go so bad after eating he believes he may have flooded the toilet as we left in a hurry. If this is the case, I can see why we aren't liked very much.

:lol:


Bad clam bellies?

 

[STOGEY]

Just got this from Fran... Thought that I should add it... I hope that we can get as much support as possible for this. I encourage clubs, shops, and charters to send representatives on August 9.

Have you been contacted yet regarding the new Gloucester Dive Flag by-law? The Bay State Council met last week to discuss strategy. I don't have the exact wording of the bylaw yet, but in essence it states that "ALL" divers are required to carry a dive flag, must remain within 25 feet of the flag and can be no closer than 25 feet from a trap warp, in effect from the buoy to the last trap on the line, or any part thereof. Under Massachusetts state law a local by-law cannot frustrate the purpose of the state law. The town of Gloucester believes that if a town bylaw is stricter than state law then it does not "frustrate the purpose" of the state law.
The BSC went through this about 15 years ago with the town of Nahant which passed a bylaw much like Gloucester's. At that time local dive instructor Rusty Murray allowed herself to be arrested under the town bylaw. The Council hired Attorney E. Steven Cohen to defend Ms Murray and had the bylaw repealed. Attorney Cohen is co-author of PADI's book of law and diving.
Recently Dave Stillman contacted Attorney Cohen regarding the Gloucester situation. Dave has heard from the Harbor Master, Assistant Harbor Master and City Solicitor of Gloucester who all believe that if the bylaw is stricter than the state law, than it is OK. Mr Cohen had this to say.
"This is not necessarily true. If a by-law conflicts with a state law, being stricter does not necessarily validate the by-law. It depends if the state statute is part of a comprehensive statutory scheme that preempts any state action (which was argued in the Nahant case) or if the by-law frustrates the purpose of the state law (which was argued in the Nahant case) In this case, the by-law is stricter but does not automatically mean the bylaw is valid."
"A by-law must be in conflict with a state law and must frustrate the purpose of the state law to be stricken. In this case, as in Nahant, the Gloucester by-law conflicts with state law and, frustrates the purpose of the state statute so I believe this is the same situation as Nahant"

Because of Mr. Cohen's experience in these matters, the Council believes he is pre-eminently qualified to represent the diving community in this case. For his part Cohen has agreed to lower his hourly rate and estimates it would cost between $3000 to $4500. He would also prefer to have the Council as his client, in effect representing the "Grass Roots" of the diving community as apposed to commercial interests such as Dive Shops or Charter Boats.
However, the Council is strapped for cash. Our last meeting raised approximate $760. The New England Aquarium Dive Club contributed $200. Many individuals, myself included contributed $100. We're asking the dive clubs, shops and charter boats to contribute what they can. If we let the Gloucester bylaw sit than it's likely other coastal towns will follow with their own restrictive legislation making their defeat all the more costly.

Sincerely
Christopher C. Hugo
Board of Directors, Bay State Council of Divers

P.S. UPDATE; The BSC has contracted Attorney Cohen to represent us in the up coming case against the City of Gloucester. We've set up an informational meeting with Mr. Cohen for August 9, 7:30 PM at the Neptune's Clubhouse, corner of Quarry and Joyce Streets, Quincy. Although all are welcome, space dictates that dive shops, charter Captains, and clubs send representatives.
Another meeting has been scheduled with Mr. Cohen for the general public on August 14. We're trying to get the Aquarium, but that's not definite.

For those interested in contributing to this cause, the Council cannot handle Pay Pal or Credit Cards, the key to our survival has been being as "low-maintenance" as possible

Checks should be made payable to Bay State Council of Divers and sent to;

Bay State Council of Divers c/o South Shore Neptune's, P.O. Box 518, Quincy, Mass. 02169

Angelo Correnti can be reached at 781-391-1034 or correntibe@aol.com

I got the same thing from Fran as well. How often do you use his charter?