Cave diving on CC is safer than on OC?

[Manatee Diver]

AA956 was CFIT because of a failed terrain escape. There have been other CFIT crashes in GPWS and TAWS equipped airplanes

Didn't happened in the US, so it wasn't on the list I was looking about. But the point still stands CFIT are now dramatically less common worldwide after the mandate of GPWS, with not a single one inside the US. With the crashes that do happen typically involving the systems being disabled as the most common contributing factor.

 

[berndo]

His MO is to try to annoy people with his point rather than trying to see both sides of the coin. (He'll now chime in saying basically the same thing about me)

This is BS rddved. I don't try to annoy people, I get the annoyed by the moronic stuff that gets posted and by people who talk about stuff they never done. I don't know why I would say that about you, I just have a different opinion.
It's amazing to me how people can be this dense... but than there are people who believe in flat earth and lizard people...
I have a ccr too but I'm not telling myself it's safer and you shouldn't either.
It's obvious to anyone who actually bothers to read accident reports.
This was about tourist cave dives, not some 8 hour trimix dive.

 

[berndo]

I answered your question as it was asked.

....

You countered that asking how many accidents we see which were a result of a delayed exit, thus running out of gas, and comparing that to number of CCR accidents.

No, I did not counter, that was the question I asked. What's the answer?

You cherry picked scenario might make you feel better but in the real world you don't get to pick a scenario.

 

[berndo]

We have less and less cave and ccr fatalities compared to 10-20 years ago, so the proportion of morons is decreasing.

What are you basing this on? There are a lot of ccr accidents I hear and read about. Not nearly every accidents makes onto scubaboard.

 

[berndo]

Mutiple people have died because they got disoriented and swam back and forth along the Paso de Lagarto line in the Grand Cenote system (outside of Tulum MX) until they ran out of gas and drowned. It's very much a tourist cave. So many folks have died in that section the cave is now closed to divers. Would they have drowned on CCR? Probably not. Does that make CCR "safer" than OC? Also probably not. But that's the kind of answer you get to an oversimplified and inherently flawed question.

Now cherry pick something about car accidents where a motorcycle would have missed the tree because it's narrower.

The question is not flawed. There is a definite answer to that.
Only because you can name a few situations where a ccr is safer, doesn't change anything.
We can look at accident numbers, it's not very difficult so see.

 

[rddvet]

This is BS rddved. I don't try to annoy people, I get the annoyed by the moronic stuff that gets posted and by people who talk about stuff they never done. I don't know why I would say that about you, I just have a different opinion.
It's amazing to me how people can be this dense... but than there are people who believe in flat earth and lizard people...
I have a ccr too but I'm not telling myself it's safer and you shouldn't either.
It's obvious to anyone who actually bothers to read accident reports.
This was about tourist cave dives, not some 8 hour trimix dive.

I edited my post since I realized it’s pointless to retort. We see what we choose to see about ourselves is all I can say.

 

[Wibble]

Did someone say "beetlejuice"? (Or futumptch if you’re a Young Ones fan)

 

[J-Vo]

In my humble 250 hours on the loop I have had only one major failure. That was an LP second stage hose boom on my primary dil'out. I was able to stay on the loop and calmly ascend to a safe depth for my next bailout gas. It would have been about the same on OC with a shutdown and ascent to the next gas, but I would have found it a bit more "sporting".

Was this a CCR failure or an OC failure?

 

[Germie]

I think a lot of ccr divers never experienced a real problem. But you have to be aware a problem can happen. That is why a ccr can be more complex than oc. It is not only the spg, it is with ccr the spg's, the PO2, the distance swam in a cave (means bailout), risk of CO2 problems, etc.

A cookie is a cookie, a jump is a jump, oc or ccr. The biggest risk while being on ccr is that you forgot the distance you can swim out on your bo.
If you want to compare Mexico vs Florida vs Europe with accidents on ccr vs oc, you also have to compare complexity, flow, depth, etc.
With a ccr you buy time. As long as the unit works. This will help when you lost your direction. But you still get deco if the depth is deep enough, and if you have to deal with a high flow, a ccr gives you a higher CO2 risk than oc.
Another point is the age of the diver, so can an accident be a medical one or not? The higher the age, the bigger the risk of a medical problem. And maybe, I don't know, statistics show differences between mCCR and eCCR, but I have never seen this, so I don't know. I dive oc bm, oc sm, ssm ccr, bm ccr and can use my bm ccr as main ccr and the sm ccr as bo ccr if I want. The sm ccr is a mCCR and the bm ccr is an eCCR. I still do all.

The biggest disadvantage of a ccr over oc is if you dive with oc friends. After a dive they all can have a beer, and you have to clean your ccr, refill scrubber, etc.

 

[J-Vo]

The biggest disadvantage of a ccr over oc is if you dive with oc friends. After a dive they all can have a beer, and you have to clean your ccr, refill scrubber, etc.

I have no problem with beers during this process.