Accident at Blue Springs, Jackson County FL

[Jocasseegirl]

Very interesting reading the threads. Thank you Deb for your support and the rest of the divers. We got back today from Joel's funeral, not fun. In closing, please pray for Christy and keep her in your thoughts and prayers. It was difficult for her.
Thank you, Lisa

Lisa, I got a call from Steve Little yesterday - he remembered meeting me at Jackie's funeral and he found my info from my website. He was very upset about Joel and shared about the dives he has made with both Joel and Jackie. He didn't find out about Joel until yesterday. I directed him to the memorial site. I'm so sorry for Christy, and I know also that this is causing you to relive Jackie's death. His memorial will stay on my website forever.

Deb

 

[sporket]

Very saddened by your loss. My condolences to friends and family.

 

[DandyDon]

Speculations about an accident sometimes have a place in a discussion with learning as a goal, sometimes not. We all mean to be respectful, even tho rarely some posts are not so obvious about that. We usually do not get the autopsy results here. In the long run DAN accident reports give more on probable causes - two years later.

There is also a thread in Passings forum with regard to Joel's loss: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/passings/237649-marianna-accident.html

By the way, I had the link right but the name of the forum wrong, sorry. That thread in Passing would be a great place to post pics of Joel if y'all would like to? You can use photo host sites like Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket and TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting with settings on 640 wide to get the IMG codes and just post those. Using the Preview feature at first helps with new function uses. PM me if I can help with that...

 

[nos3665]

Joel lost his life doing what he Loved.

Joels skill level , I had dove with Joel. I doubt his Skills and Habits caused his death.

As for panic, Joel was a RocK I doubt this came in play.

Gear, well I read his gear was tested at the site and found to be in working order.

Workload, yes he had a added workload with the scooter.

We could guess to the end of time but be assured what ever happened to my friend was instant and left him unable save himself.

Gods Speed my friend see you on the other side! Hold us a spot!! Steve

 

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

Joel lost his life doing what he Loved.

Joels skill level , I had dove with Joel. I doubt his Skills and Habits caused his death.

As for panic, Joel was a RocK I doubt this came in play.

Gear, well I read his gear was tested at the site and found to be in working order.

Workload, yes he had a added workload with the scooter.

We could guess to the end of time but be assured what ever happened to my friend was instant and left him unable save himself.

Gods Speed my friend see you on the other side! Hold us a spot!! Steve

I am sure Joel was the best of the best and that he dove with the best of the best.

I am sure few could match his skills on a good day or even mildly bad day. But it wasn't a good day or even mildly bad day--it was a very very very bad day. So the point of these threads is to try to figure out how it went so wrong for such a good diver.

If something can happen to kill a diver who is the best of the best, then those of us with much less skill better sit up and take note. And if we can learn to avoid a mistake or situation that killed the best of the best --we had better do so. If the best of the best can't get themselves out of such a situation, the rest of us can't either----and we dare not knowingly go there.

It may have been a medical event that was the onset of the loss of his life. Perhaps then the discussion could be what to do if you or your buddy has a medical event underwater. Last fall I lost part of my vision for several minutes for the first time in my life. Strokes run in my family. I called the doc and he said to go to emergency asap. I am glad that it did not happen underwater. There was a bit of panic for me at my desk as I was hit with sudden and fierce loss of parts of my vision. All heart attacks are not fatal even though many of them are very unsettling. Would a mild heart attack or stroke lead to panic in an otherwise seasoned and cool diver? It is worth talking about.

We in these threads aren't trying to convict or punish anyone, but rather figure out ways to solve problems above the water line while we have a lot of time to discuss them. If perhaps someon suggests a cause that was not the real cause, but helps someone become a safer diver, we are all better off at the end of the thread.

I am sorry that you lost your friend.

 

[TSandM]

USBB, you make a good point about what to do if your buddy has a medical problem underwater. One of the skills I have been taught and made to practice is the retrieval of an unconscious or incapacitated diver. It's not trivial, particularly if you have to swim any distance, or perform a controlled ascent of any length while controlling both you and your buddy's buoyancy. It is taught in Rescue, which is a class I think everyone should take, but it also has to be practiced, because like anything else, the skill gets rusty with disuse.

 

[deep.dude]

We in these threads aren't trying to convict or punish anyone, but rather figure out ways to solve problems above the water line while we have a lot of time to discuss them. If perhaps someon suggests a cause that was not the real cause, but helps someone become a safer diver, we are all better off at the end of the thread.
QUOTE]

I have to agree with this statement. The public usally never hears any final outcome. News stations and reporters don't bother to wait for final outcomes and report them. Most people don't make the attempt to get the final details which is probably not available to the public anyways. Frequently speculation is all we as divershave to deal with. If 5 people identify 5 possible causes or senerios that could explain an incident. That is still 5 possible problems that a diver should consider in future dives if they haven't considered those possibilities already. If a wrong speculation identifys a situation that could result in injury, and someone suggests of a preventative measure for that situation, this could help a diver avoid these problems in the future. So please dicuss it. We should all be interest in furthering not only our personal knowledge but the knowledge of the dive community in general. Simply making a diver think about safety is a good thing and can ultimately aid all of us in the future.

However, I agree that names should not be listed in this forum. I also beleive that anyone posting a message here should be careful to point out that thier speculation or opinion is just that. If you quote something from the news please be accurate and remember the the news tends to sensationalize stories by how they present information. I have watched them take an hour long interview and condense it to less than three minutes of air time. As long as you identify your ideas as speculation or opinion then speculation can be a great training aid to all divers. Especially if you identify how you came to that conclusion. Lacking that, the same information becomes nothing but gossip, and the last thing that I think any of us wishes to do is pass judgement on the dear departed of or hurt the freinds and familys of the deceased. Of couse this is all just my opinion.

 

[Jocasseegirl]

However, I agree that names should not be listed in this forum. I also beleive that anyone posting a message here should be careful to point out that thier speculation or opinion is just that. If you quote something from the news please be accurate and remember the the news tends to sensationalize stories by how they present information. I have watched them take an hour long interview and condense it to less than three minutes of air time. As long as you identify your ideas as speculation or opinion then speculation can be a great training aid to all divers. Especially if you identify how you came to that conclusion. Lacking that, the same information becomes nothing but gossip, and the last thing that I think any of us wishes to do is pass judgement on the dear departed of or hurt the freinds and familys of the deceased. Of couse this is all just my opinion.

Amen. I know first-hand how the media distorts things. I've been interviewed a number of times about the flooding of Jocassee Valley, and I am frequently misquoted. Last year, a young child drowned in Lake Jocassee. There was a media frenzy for 2 weeks until his body was found. On the TV news, they aired an underwater video from 2004 that divers had taken of my family's homestead in 300 ffw. It lead the public to believe that they just shot that video during the search for the boy's body, until I called the TV station, and they pulled the video. Don't believe everything you hear, or read. Anyway, great point that names should be left out (and care taken to discuss the what-ifs in another thread, rather than in the thread in Passings).

 

[stairman]

USBB, you make a good point about what to do if your buddy has a medical problem underwater. One of the skills I have been taught and made to practice is the retrieval of an unconscious or incapacitated diver. It's not trivial, particularly if you have to swim any distance, or perform a controlled ascent of any length while controlling both you and your buddy's buoyancy. It is taught in Rescue, which is a class I think everyone should take, but it also has to be practiced, because like anything else, the skill gets rusty with disuse.

Johnny Richards requires a rescue cert before formal cave training.They are skills that should be practiced as you said.Looking at accident analysis for trained cave divers,exceeding depth for a blend and health issues seem to be the two main culprits.

 

[Flutterbye]

I have a question. I am not a diver and do not know much about diving. Joel was kin to me and I knew he was a cave diver. The information I have came from an extremely reliable source which I will not name and is also just something where they are heading on cause of death. The question is...Is it possible to be strangled to death by your own dive suit? I had just never heard of such and after hearing this information I had to ask divers who are experienced. Knowing the circumstances surrounding Joel's last dive I couldn't imagine that this was what happened. Could you please inform me if this is even possible and how?