A very bad week in Florida

[rjack321]

That's why DIRF, Intro to Tech, etc exist. To establish a baseline. This student was let down by several instructors before this (or should have been).

 

[Ana]

Me, I want an instructor who won't hold back his honest thoughts. To date, I haven't had an issues with this. (although a couple times, it took a bit of time to relax and remove the emotional reaction to get the full message)

Agree 100%. I'm not talking about sugar coating, or politicaly correct stuff. Total honesty can be done in a civilized maner.

So you actually believe that "berating" was of any benefit for the student on this thread? My opinion is it did not. Even worse... it allows a bad student to bring valid arguments against the instructor.

 

[Doubles]

It's the instructor's fault for taking an unprepared student, and his money, into an advanced course the first place.

Well maybe

I agree that at some point the instructor knew the skills were lacking and the course should have moved to remedial training if that would lead to some positive move forward. Otherwise a polite suggestion to remain a recreational diver would have been warranted.

As for the money, if you book a class and promote yourself to be better than you are - the instructor isn't wrong for taking the money. The instructor did schedule the class - took the time.

Sandie2 - thanks for popping into our forum - very interesting reads indeed.

Both parties have issues, the OP has an agenda.

-s

 

[Missdirected]

Can I be the first to apoligise for the escape and then the infringement on your forum by what we in the (UK) United Kingdom see as the amusing little troll called "Bruciebabe", AKA= Bruce Everiss.

Here's some links, to show what people think in the United Kingdom of this "diver":-

http://www.yorkshire-divers.com/forums/non-diving-posts/49918-guess-who.html

http://www.divernet.com/forumvb/showthread.php?t=2324

http://www.divernet.com/forumvb/showthread.php?t=2358

The blokes got form :11:

Wooly W*****er I like to have died laughing when I read that.

Quoted from Stesh on Yorkshire Divers:
Oh no, Not the wooly w**ker

Sorry, for the hijack.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

I have to disgree with you on this. A student should always be treated with dignity and respect. If a student is not cutting it he should be taken aside privately and told so. You explain what needs to be corrected, when you expect the corrections to be made, and the consequences of not making them. If the student gets beligerent then it is time to end the relationship. You never need to scream, just tell them to go home.

You are certainly right... but what Lynne describes is very commonly seen in residency programs... especially surgical programs. They are, of course, never taught how to teach. They are thrown into that role simply because of their position. Some are naturally good at it... and others simply have no clue. Screaming is for the benefit of the screamer. It may be a way to vent or a way to make the screamer feel superior and sometimes it's used straight out as a way to humiliate. Whatever it is, it indicates a failure on the part of the teacher... not the student.

 

[Missdirected]

You are certainly right... but what Lynne describes is very commonly seen in residency programs... especially surgical programs. They are, of course, never taught how to teach. They are thrown into that role simply because of their position. Some are naturally good at it... and others simply have no clue. Screaming is for the benefit of the screamer. It may be a way to vent or a way to make the screamer feel superior and sometimes it's used straight out as a way to humiliate. Whatever it is, it indicates a failure on the part of the teacher... not the student.

Well put. Great leaders, teachers, and mentors do not scream.

 

[ams511]

Can't assume. That's why instructors perform a "check-out" dive with an unfamilar student prior to instruction for skill level evaluation - standard.

Like I said before Daniel there is more here than is being reported. If the OP's skills were so bad why was he allowed to complete all the dives and not told sooner that it was doubtful that he would pass? Also why were the signatures ripped out of the log book? If the OP did not pass the dives why did the CI signoff on them?

 

[ams511]

Wooly W*****er I like to have died laughing when I read that.

Quoted from Stesh on Yorkshire Divers:
Oh no, Not the wooly w**ker

Sorry, for the hijack.

The Brits sure have a way with words. I wonder is wooly ****** in banned on SB? I also wonder what it means exactly, although I have a good idea.

Edit: I guess it is.

 

[TSandM]

You know, I agree with you guys: Good instructors don't scream, and you take somebody aside and work with them in private, and explain what needs to be done, or demonstrate what needs to be done, or come up with a checklist to help somebody remember what needs to be done, or similar actions. I'm accounted a very good teacher in a number of disciplines, but with this particular resident, I got nowhere using every strategy I knew. He was simply lazy and careless, and cut corners and left work undone. He was eventually fired, but I did not have the power to remove him from my service. I screamed at him when his laziness and desire to go home early the night before resulted in the THIRD time a surgical procedure on a patient had to be cancelled because of lack of proper preparation of the patient. This resulted in a THIRD hospital day which would not be paid for by insurance because it wasn't necessary, and a THIRD set of antibiotic doses given to the patient, which have side effects, and a THIRD day of a screwed up operating room schedule because the first case got cancelled. I did lose my temper, but a part of me thought that just maybe, if I used a different and more colorful approach, it MIGHT make a dent in this guys skull. It didn't, and rage is the last refuge of an instructor who's emptied his bag of tricks, to be sure!

 

[in_cavediver]

You know, I agree with you guys: Good instructors don't scream, and you take somebody aside and work with them in private, and explain what needs to be done, or demonstrate what needs to be done, or come up with a checklist to help somebody remember what needs to be done, or similar actions. I'm accounted a very good teacher in a number of disciplines, but with this particular resident, I got nowhere using every strategy I knew. He was simply lazy and careless, and cut corners and left work undone. He was eventually fired, but I did not have the power to remove him from my service. I screamed at him when his laziness and desire to go home early the night before resulted in the THIRD time a surgical procedure on a patient had to be cancelled because of lack of proper preparation of the patient. This resulted in a THIRD hospital day which would not be paid for by insurance because it wasn't necessary, and a THIRD set of antibiotic doses given to the patient, which have side effects, and a THIRD day of a screwed up operating room schedule because the first case got cancelled. I did lose my temper, but a part of me thought that just maybe, if I used a different and more colorful approach, it MIGHT make a dent in this guys skull. It didn't, and rage is the last refuge of an instructor who's emptied his bag of tricks, to be sure!

Lynne,

Very well put and I agree. I suspect that this came in to play at some point in the OP class. I also suspect some rather strong ego's clashed early and often escalating the tensions in the interactions and critiques as well.

I do believe in 95% of tec classes, there is no reason to have to raise your voice or berate a student. From working at a major University for the last 8 years, I can very clearly see the potential 5% where this lack of communication would escalate to that level, especially if the student brought the 'I bought the card so give it to me' attitude to the class rather than an open mind and the 'I bought the training and hope to earn the card' attitude.

Definitely fault and mischaracterizations on both sides in the OP's case. I was in Florida, Peacock area, from the 10th to the 17th and don't recall seeing/hearing any of this. If that was the 'Bad week', I sure didn't notice it (or it was a 'Good week' for me). I did run into several very nice individuals down there though. (and some even remembered me!) Perhaps is was the week after I had to return to the frozen North that turned 'Bad' with the cold spell...