A drag issue : to bungee wings or not to bungee

[The Chairman]

Many of the anti-bungee crowd have proven only one thing: that they don't like bungees.

Let's face it: a lot of suppositions have been offered up that are based on fanciful extrapolations of fact interlaced with out right myths based on their dislike. Take this statement:

I'm not sure if the bad divers buy bungied wings or if the bungied wings make poor divers but its scary consistent.

And? Most of the divers I see with or without bungees have atrocious trim and buoyancy. It's crazy consistent!

Then we have the have the conflicting statements that the wings are "too big" and within a post or two that they won't "inflate all the way". It's like watching politicians vilify the opponent. People who have not dove with the bungeed wings, have no problem telling us just how they work including these hypothetical shortfalls. It's like me telling how bad the diving is in the Red Sea, having based all of my opinions on the experiences of others and stating them as fact.

I will never understand the cyber diver predilection to act like an expert without having any actual experience, but bungeed wings seem to bring them out in droves. Go figure.

 

[Blackwood]

I will never understand the cyber diver predilection to act like an expert without having any actual experience, but bungeed wings seem to bring them out in droves. Go figure.

I just like to read them because I often get to talk about fluid mechanics

 

[The Chairman]

I just like to read them because I often get to talk about fluid mechanics

I tried that line on a girl once. It never seemed to work for me.

 

[LiteHedded]

Many of the anti-bungee crowd have proven only one thing: that they don't like bungees.

Let's face it: a lot of suppositions have been offered up that are based on fanciful extrapolations of fact interlaced with out right myths based on their dislike. Take this statement: And? Most of the divers I see with or without bungees have atrocious trim and buoyancy. It's crazy consistent!

Then we have the have the conflicting statements that the wings are "too big" and within a post or two that they won't "inflate all the way". It's like watching politicians vilify the opponent. People who have not dove with the bungeed wings, have no problem telling us just how they work including these hypothetical shortfalls. It's like me telling how bad the diving is in the Red Sea, having based all of my opinions on the experiences of others and stating them as fact.

I will never understand the cyber diver predilection to act like an expert without having any actual experience, but bungeed wings seem to bring them out in droves. Go figure.

well that's what makes us the anti-bungee crowd

 

[Tortuga68]

He's got us there

 

[danvolker]

Then we have the have the conflicting statements that the wings are "too big" and within a post or two that they won't "inflate all the way". It's like watching politicians vilify the opponent. People who have not dove with the bungeed wings, have no problem telling us just how they work including these hypothetical shortfalls. It's like me telling how bad the diving is in the Red Sea, having based all of my opinions on the experiences of others and stating them as fact.

I will never understand the cyber diver predilection to act like an expert without having any actual experience, but bungeed wings seem to bring them out in droves. Go figure.

Pete,
One of the things I saw alot of, was "tech divers" who wanted to carry MASSIVE amounts of gas with them, maybe twice what I would consider carrying on a typical 280 foot wreck dive....this type of diver would see the massive rated lift potential of the largest OMS Bungie Wings ( you know, the Deluxe BWOD models .. ) , and "WRONGFULLY assume they could have all of this lift if they needed it to get off the bottom. Since many of these were 7 mil wetsuit wearers on S Florida tech dives, this meant at the bottom, they really did need a great deal of lift to keep all the heavy steels they were carying neutral...this led to a hugely inflated big wing, with the functioning inflation of the big bungee wing--and massive drag result swimming with a very inflated big wing--so more gas would be consumed, and more gas would be desired for the next dive...and bigger inflation needs

Pete, I know you don't resemble that picture

Regards,
DanV

 

[danvolker]

I found a shot that looks a lot like a net doctor wearing bungees.....Pete, could this be you ?

See attached file

DanV

 

[cool_hardware52]

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/at...ag-issue-bungee-wings-not-bungee-img_2207.jpg

How does one fully vent this wing? The huge puckers trap gas.

I have tried bungeed wings, and my biggest objection is that they are nearly impossible to fully vent. If you can't vent the wing you must carry more ballast.

The "holy grail" of wing design is the "One wing does it all" design. I went down this path too when I was new to wing design. None of these ever made it to market.

One wing that will work well for small singles in a tropical suit all the way up to 2 x 130's in Drysuit and heavy undergarment, i.e. the variable volume wing.

Imagine the potential market for such a mythical beast. Seldom a day passes here at ScubaBoard where some newish diver is not asking about "a wing for singles and doubles"

Stretch panels, elastic, zippered panels, control cords, and of course bungees have all been offered as a means to the one wing that can do it all.

Remember the "do it all" wing is a retailers dream, one SKU to stock, one wing to offer to all, etc. Same for the manufacturer. Much easier to make one wing than say the 16 different designs we offer.

Are there specific applications where restraining a wing may offer benefits that outweigh the negatives? Sure. SideMount is a special case where profile may trump other needs. For most IMO the negatives outweigh any perceived benefits.

Is it possible to use such a wing? Sure, in this very thread we have a member claiming they use a 94 lbs wing a single al 80 and a 3mm suit.

Is a bungeed wing ideal, i.e. better than using a wing of appropriate shape and capacity? That's a whole different question.

Pretty hard to argue that a narrow profile, appropriately sized wing sans bungees will be harder to vent than a lumpy puckered convoluted wing.

Tobin

 

[The Chairman]

I have made numerous points, but this is not the way to get ahead.

I found a shot that looks a lot like a net doctor wearing bungees.....Pete, could this be you ?

See attached file

DanV

 

[The Chairman]

Is a bungeed wing ideal,

That's the best part about Tobin: he doesn't get into a lot exaggeration. He never pontificates with phrases that come across as "Thou wilt surely die!". I love it! You won't hear him declare that a puncture will kill you with runaway deflation one moment only to suggest that you can't fully deflate the wing the next. IOW, he doesn't feel a need to win an argument at any cost, especially when his credibility is the price tag. You can learn a lot about wings and discussion style both from Tobin.

FWIW, the current bungees that I employ do not constrict my Zeagle wing radially as the infamous OMS design does. There are tabs sewn into the wing at strategic points and the bungees keep the edge of my wing down quite a bit. In fact, they run fairly straight along each edge of my fabric backplate. The only time they go over the wing is at the top to keep the front down. So you know, Scott Zeagle just shakes his head every time he sees this FrankenBC. That's OK: I understand why I modified it the way I did and it works well for me. I know for a fact that my wing vents fully and quickly and I would imagine that it is more streamlined than similar non-bungeed versions.