A different take on Master Scuba Diver

[NYCrecdiver]

Hi everybody

I recently got (back) into scuba and I love it! I’m a few weeks away from completing PADI Master Scuba Diver. Having followed the forums for a few months and seen a general trend of similar (negative) views towards this rating, I thought I would present an alternative viewpoint to encourage others. I want to focus on the content of MSD rather than the title, as whilst I see how the MSD title is contentious, it is also highly subjective. I don’t personally have a problem with it.

By the time I complete MSD, I will have completed 21 training dives across nine courses (OW, AOW, EFR, RD, Nav, Deep, Wreck, Dry Suit and Nitrox) plus around five days of theory e-learning, so almost a month of full time training. I will have a further 29 recreational dives in both tropical and cold water, sea and lakes. Whilst I don’t feel I am ‘expert’, I do feel safe, competent and that I have mastered the basic skills in a range of conditions. Perhaps it’s not the usual approach but I have viewed it as a single training pipeline, albeit one that has been modularised to make it more accessible.

I have also enjoyed the flexibility, being able to tailor my specialties to my interests and local needs. I know another criticism is that you can count several non-dive specialties; but do many people actually do that? Or do most people actually take a combination of dive and non-dive training to suit their needs? Either way, as a minimum they still need RD and fifty dives.

The speciality courses on their own haven’t made me an expert, or even competent, in the skills taught. But I don’t think they aim to. You learn skills on the courses, but it’s through applying them on recreational dives outside of training that I’ve practiced them and built my experience.

Another one of the criticisms of MSD seems to be based on a comparison with NAUI MSD, but I don’t see how one is better or worse than the other. NAUI MSD requires 19 training dives (fewer than I have done with PADI) and a dive theory package-the professional dive theory course for PADI can be done separately (and optionally) or as part of the DM course. Those who want it can do it; but having looked into it, I don’t see how professional level dive theory is relevant for amateur recreational diving of this type, even for MSD.

The received wisdom on SB is to do courses such as NAUI MSD and GUE Fundies. If I’d followed the advice I’d read on SB I would never have considered PADI MSD as it feels like the only route advocated is to push to be a highly trained amateur diving specialist. I’d like to advocate an alternative for other newcomers to diving - PADI MSD has been challenging enough to be rewarding, but modular and flexible enough to be relevant and accessible. It has given me a good foundation to enjoy a new hobby, receive some good training, learn new skills - and have a lot of fun. Let’s not lose sight of that!

Nice post.
I also used the MSD track to get into diving locally instead of only during vacations. I was rusty and not very comfortable/confident. So I figure to get back into it more seriously with the help of an instructor and PADI's program. It was a lot of fun. Especially the RD course was very rewarding for me personally.

And the MSD title... Well... It is what it is. I would agree that it's a bit of a misnomer. Just like AOW is a misnomer. There's nothing 'advanced' about a diver who just finished their AOW. It's like everyone on Wall Street is a VP of something. It's marketing. As long as we don't get carried away by titles and have fun learning, we'll be fine.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Next question: I’ve also just completed the PADI Dive Theory course. Does anyone have any experience or factual information about how it compares to SSI Science of Diving or NAUI MSD Dive Theory?

I have the NAUI master diver manual. It is very good. Blows away the PADI materials. The NAUI MSD certification carries a lot more weight in my opinion.

 

[Centrals]

I have the NAUI master diver manual. It is very good. Blows away the PADI materials. The NAUI MSD certification carries a lot more weight in my opinion.

You ought to start a new thread on this! LOL.

 

[scubadada]

I have the NAUI master diver manual. It is very good. Blows away the PADI materials. The NAUI MSD certification carries a lot more weight in my opinion.

How so?

 

[boulderjohn]

Advanced Open Water NEVER meant you were an advanced diver, it only has meant -- from the beginning -- that you had advanced beyond Open Water.

Just like AOW is a misnomer. There's nothing 'advanced' about a diver who just finished their AOW.

So, tell, me, Tursiops, do you ever get the feeling no one is listening to you? Do you ever get tired of having to say the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?

 

[boulderjohn]

We've already had the discussion on what the definition of Master is for any endeavor.

When an organization takes the time and effort to define precisely what it means by a word like "mastery" in its standards, don't you think it is a little pointelss to tell them what you think their definition should have been?

 

[scubadada]

So, tell, me, Tursiops, do you ever get the feeling no one is listening to you? Do you ever get tired of having to say the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?

Ha, that's SB. Just as true for everything you write, correct?

 

[RobPNW]

If no one was allowed to have or express an opinion on something, there would be a total of like 3 posts a day here from people trying to sell stuff.

 

[lowwall]

Thirdly, The name is at least 30 years old (not sure when it started, but pre 1994) and words and their meaning evolve with time. Advanced Open Water NEVER meant you were an advanced diver, it only has meant -- from the beginning -- that you had advanced beyond Open Water. MSD NEVER meant you were a master of all things, only that you had achieved the highest recreational rating.

A stupid title with 30 years of history is still a stupid title.

It's pure marketing fluff. And it's insulting to everyone who had earned the title in other professions such as Master Diver, Master Gunner, Master Rigger and Master Chief.

 

[drrich2]

As a newbie with around 100 dives and 8 "specialties" done, I kind of have an issue with the name "master diver". Even though I have more than the requirements, when I hear that title, I think of the folks here that have been diving for 30 years and have 10,000 dives- not me. It's like taking a weekend kickboxing class at the gym and then getting a black belt

Others explained where the titles come from. Your post got me thinking about what one compares it to. An avid diver (which many of us are, even a one or two trip/year intermediate rec. diver like me) might compare the title 'master' against seasoned dive guides with thousands of dives, top quality instructors, advanced tech. divers who cave dive without stirring up silt, people with a GUE Fundamentals tec. pass, people with extensive experience diving in more demanding environments, etc...

But what kind of 'crowd' do most divers fairly early in their diving compare themselves against? Once you get OW, Nitrox and AOW, and you wonder what's next or whether you're done with training and cert.s, who do you compare yourself to?

Maybe a local dive shop or club group that offers courses and organized dive trips to ocean diving in benign conditions? If so, you might dive amongst people with OW, AOW and maybe Nitrox cert.s, and some with DM, Assistant Instructor or Instructor cert.s.

Master Scuba Diver is a recreational cert. If we ignore the dive professionals, by the time you qualify for the Master Scuba Diver certification, you probably have developed a substantial level of mastery in basic OW diving beyond what you had when you finished the OW course, and even your AOW, and you have broader experience.

So if 'mastery' is designed relative to where you started, it's not a bad term. If it's considered in the context of recreational diving and in your local benign conditions vacation diver group, it may not be pretentious or overreaching.

Some of us judge it harshly because we compare it to a context many people don't have or don't use.

To use your analogy, not all black belts are created equal. I imagine the harder core trained black belts might sometimes roll their eyes at some of the others who have them.