A different take on Master Scuba Diver

[100days-a-year]

Diver level 1, diver level 2, diver level 3 etc.....technical diver level 1 etc...cave diver level 1 etc.....

 

[BlueTrin]

Don't know, but something other than master diver. I meet all the requirements and I'm a master of nothing.

I will always recognise you as my spiritual guide … master

 

[RobPNW]

Diver level 1, diver level 2, diver level 3 etc.....technical diver level 1 etc...cave diver level 1 etc.....

Similar to my thoughts. I wish "Advanced" open water was called something like intermediate open water. Then after all requirements are met for the current MSD, you could call that "Advanced Open Water Diver". I'd be more okay with that naming convention.

 

[RobPNW]

I will always recognise you as my spiritual guide … master

Bwahahaha.

 

[tursiops]

Don't know, but something other than master diver. I meet all the requirements and I'm a master of nothing.

First of all, it is not Master Diver. It is Master Scuba Diver. A Master Diver is a Navy term.
Secondly, if people wish to read into a title more than it is intended to mean, that's on them
Thirdly, The name is at least 30 years old (not sure when it started, but pre 1994) and words and their meaning evolve with time. Advanced Open Water NEVER meant you were an advanced diver, it only has meant -- from the beginning -- that you had advanced beyond Open Water. MSD NEVER meant you were a master of all things, only that you had achieved the highest recreational rating.
Far too much angst on SB about titles of stuff, and far too little understanding of the practical consequences of trying to change a name of something that has been around far lponger than many of the complainers have even lived.

 

[scubadada]

I've mentioned this before, but some people stay motivated to progress if they have a milestone recognition. For those people, hey go for it. If that helps keep you on track to make progress, do it. What motivates me enough is getting away from the work grind, getting in the water, having fun and learning something new. If I was independently wealthy, I would dive every week.

As a newbie with around 100 dives and 8 "specialties" done, I kind of have an issue with the name "master diver". Even though I have more than the requirements, when I hear that title, I think of the folks here that have been diving for 30 years and have 10,000 dives- not me. It's like taking a weekend kickboxing class at the gym and then getting a black belt

So, I don't have a problem with the milestone, I have an issue with the title. At the end of the day, I'm libertarian minded and everyone can do there own thing, and this is just my opinion.

Hi @RobPNW

I got MSD in 2005 after 5 specialties. I have not done any PADI training since then. I did get my SDI Solo in 2013. So now I have about 20x your number of dives. You have chosen to invest in 8 specialties in your much shorter dive history. What was good for me was good for me. I hope you feel the same about your dive training. Some would say you might have spent less time training and more time diving in your 1st 100 or so dives. There are an infinite number of opinions on this topic, some expressed in this thread.

 

[scubadada]

Diver level 1, diver level 2, diver level 3 etc.....technical diver level 1 etc...cave diver level 1 etc.....

That would also be completely arbitrary based on meeting requiremets. Give us an example of diver level 1, 2, and 3. OW, AOW, and Rescue, or what?

 

[Centrals]

I have done the course but never ever regarded myself as master!!!
Nothing to be proud/shame or whatnot.
If the agency wants to sell more of their courses then so be it.
It is a recreational sport afterall. PERIOD.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Diver level 1, diver level 2, diver level 3 etc.....technical diver level 1 etc...cave diver level 1 etc.....

While I often use cave diver level 1 or intro despite the fact that NSS-CDS has the name apprentice, as the limits are pretty similar across agencies even if they names are different.

I don't think tech 1 etc is that useful. As what of agencies that still allow deep air vs agencies that don't allow them. Heck GUE Tech 1 would be at least tech 2 under the TDI system, as AN/DP would be tech 1.

 

[NYCrecdiver]

Hi everybody

I recently got (back) into scuba and I love it! I’m a few weeks away from completing PADI Master Scuba Diver. Having followed the forums for a few months and seen a general trend of similar (negative) views towards this rating, I thought I would present an alternative viewpoint to encourage others. I want to focus on the content of MSD rather than the title, as whilst I see how the MSD title is contentious, it is also highly subjective. I don’t personally have a problem with it.

By the time I complete MSD, I will have completed 21 training dives across nine courses (OW, AOW, EFR, RD, Nav, Deep, Wreck, Dry Suit and Nitrox) plus around five days of theory e-learning, so almost a month of full time training. I will have a further 29 recreational dives in both tropical and cold water, sea and lakes. Whilst I don’t feel I am ‘expert’, I do feel safe, competent and that I have mastered the basic skills in a range of conditions. Perhaps it’s not the usual approach but I have viewed it as a single training pipeline, albeit one that has been modularised to make it more accessible.

I have also enjoyed the flexibility, being able to tailor my specialties to my interests and local needs. I know another criticism is that you can count several non-dive specialties; but do many people actually do that? Or do most people actually take a combination of dive and non-dive training to suit their needs? Either way, as a minimum they still need RD and fifty dives.

The speciality courses on their own haven’t made me an expert, or even competent, in the skills taught. But I don’t think they aim to. You learn skills on the courses, but it’s through applying them on recreational dives outside of training that I’ve practiced them and built my experience.

Another one of the criticisms of MSD seems to be based on a comparison with NAUI MSD, but I don’t see how one is better or worse than the other. NAUI MSD requires 19 training dives (fewer than I have done with PADI) and a dive theory package-the professional dive theory course for PADI can be done separately (and optionally) or as part of the DM course. Those who want it can do it; but having looked into it, I don’t see how professional level dive theory is relevant for amateur recreational diving of this type, even for MSD.

The received wisdom on SB is to do courses such as NAUI MSD and GUE Fundies. If I’d followed the advice I’d read on SB I would never have considered PADI MSD as it feels like the only route advocated is to push to be a highly trained amateur diving specialist. I’d like to advocate an alternative for other newcomers to diving - PADI MSD has been challenging enough to be rewarding, but modular and flexible enough to be relevant and accessible. It has given me a good foundation to enjoy a new hobby, receive some good training, learn new skills - and have a lot of fun. Let’s not lose sight of that!

Nice post.
I also used the MSD track to get into diving locally instead of only during vacations. I was rusty and not very comfortable/confident. So I figure to get back into it more seriously with the help of an instructor and PADI's program. It was a lot of fun. Especially the RD course was very rewarding for me personally.

And the MSD title... Well... It is what it is. I would agree that it's a bit of a misnomer. Just like AOW is a misnomer. There's nothing 'advanced' about a diver who just finished their AOW. It's like everyone on Wall Street is a VP of something. It's marketing. As long as we don't get carried away by titles and have fun learning, we'll be fine.