(8/19/2004) Think Someone is trying to scam my girlfriend

[mccabejc]

I find it funny how the "look" of a website can make people decide whether or not to trust you. Folks, it's incredibly easy nowadays to make a "professional" looking website. That means nothing. Just because he didn't find a high schooler to make a neat looking website, or spend a few bucks on Frontpage and a few days to throw together some standard templates and digital photos doesn't say anything about how legit a business he runs. Hell, look at Google. Incredibly simple website, your 15 year old kids could have designed it, and they're about to go on an IPO worth kazillions of $$$. If you knew nothing about Google, and stumbled on it, what would you think?

What matters is that he's a treasure hunter, who is asking a waitress to do a job that relies on her ability to find difficult-to-find stuff in deep waters, and if they don't find the stuff he doesn't make money. If it wasn't difficult to find it would have been found by now. Why would he bet his income and liability on someone who has never done that before? THAT is what doesn't make sense.

 

[cowprintrabbit]

I find it funny how the "look" of a website can make people decide whether or not to trust you. Folks, it's incredibly easy nowadays to make a "professional" looking website. That means nothing. Just because he didn't find a high schooler to make a neat looking website, or spend a few bucks on Frontpage and a few days to throw together some standard templates and digital photos doesn't say anything about how legit a business he runs. Hell, look at Google. Incredibly simple website, your 15 year old kids could have designed it, and they're about to go on an IPO worth kazillions of $$$. If you knew nothing about Google, and stumbled on it, what would you think?

I'm guilty of that, and my theory is that if you don't care enough about your business and how you present yourself to your customers to have a decent website that works and is easy to use; why should I do business with you?

On topic: I agree, sounds like a shady deal (and I've been the victim of a few.) Tell her to stay as far away from this guy as she can!

 

[Doc Intrepid]

What matters is that he's a treasure hunter, who is asking a waitress to do a job that relies on her ability to find difficult-to-find stuff in deep waters, and if they don't find the stuff he doesn't make money. If it wasn't difficult to find it would have been found by now. Why would he bet his income and liability on someone who has never done that before? THAT is what doesn't make sense.

Uh, maybe he wants to hire another secretary for his next trip?

If you read down through his resume of efforts over the past 40 years or so, you see a boy who's done a whole heap of lookin' and damn little findin'.

Looks like he had some excitement in the late 1960s, but he's mostly been chasing dreams ever since. That doesn't make him either criminal or dangerous. (It makes him unsuccessful as a treasure hunter, but hell...there sure are a boat load of places he's thinking about heading back to to look some more! ya just never know....)

(But I'll bet you and your girlfriend could find more productive ways to spend your time.....)

 

[pasley]

Actually, I think his scam is a very simple one. Reading carefully he is essentially doing the vanity publishing only for the treasure diving trade. He puts together these treasure hunting trips, which are funded by investors and the divers themselves. Accourding to his bogus site "sometimes they don't get enough divers interesting in going and it fall through". But I bet he makes money on the deposits etc. He is traiining divers to do these trips and other things and getting paid, by the divers dreaming of a share in the non-existant fortune. I bet he is paid a nice salery for putting together these trips even if they don't go, from the divers and investors deposits.

Note, I have no first hand knowledge of this operation so the above is speculation only.

 

[tracker]

Send an email to him (address listed on webpage):

"I heard about your company, and we may be interested in using your services for a project we are involved in. Please give me some references (names, email addresses) for some of your clients". He should be able to provide one name out of his long list:

Client List

Bahamian Government
Colombian Government
Cuban Government
Ecuadorian Government
German Government
Jamaican Government
Mexican Government
Russian Government
Georgia Tech
Secretary of the Army
Smithsonian Institution
State of Florida
University of South Carolina
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
U.S. Coast Guard
ABC Network
A&E Network
BBC Network
CBS Network
Discovery Channel
NBC Network
TBS Network(Japan)
ZDF Network(Germany)
Focus
Life
National Geographic
Stern

If you get a satisfactory response, then, on a scale of 1-10, decide how attractive your girlfriend is. Next, on a scale of 1-10, determine how unlikely it would be for you as an employer to risk such a high liability on an unknown and potentially unqualified employee (10 being totally unlikely). Then, on a scale of 1-10, determine the likelihood that his operation makes any money whatsoever with which to pay any employees (again, 10 being totally unlikely).

Add the three numbers together. If the total is greater than, say, 20, you have your answer.

And the clincher: have your girlfriend ask to speak to his wife.

Ditto. If it was that legitamate,why would he pick someone at random?

 

[baltimoron]

I find it funny how the "look" of a website can make people decide whether or not to trust you. Folks, it's incredibly easy nowadays to make a "professional" looking website. That means nothing. Just because he didn't find a high schooler to make a neat looking website, or spend a few bucks on Frontpage and a few days to throw together some standard templates and digital photos doesn't say anything about how legit a business he runs. Hell, look at Google. Incredibly simple website, your 15 year old kids could have designed it, and they're about to go on an IPO worth kazillions of $$$. If you knew nothing about Google, and stumbled on it, what would you think?

i politely disagree.

in this new age, the internet is a HUGE asset in running a bussiness. you want to get this right. customers will judge you by your website, so most people pay others to do the work for them. its just something you don't half-arse. most bussienesses want to have a neat looking website to entice people. now if the website looks like the one that we see in front of us, it shows that either they dont have the money (working for all those agencies and governments, i doubt it.) they dont have the recources (again- senile people in nursing homes have computer acess), or they dont have the integrity. now me being a prospective customer, having never seen this place nor heard of it, can't just for the two former.

also- at first glance Google is very simple, but take a glance around a bit more, and you will see how advanced it is and why the owners are soo rich!!

load it up right now- i will show you.

the alteration to the Google Logo in reference to the Olympics shows that a very talented graphics artist works at or for the company regularly.

there is an up to date copyright- they are legit enough in their name dealings.

"Searching 4,XXX,XXX,XXX web pages" thats pretty self explanatory.

there is an "About Google" page

There are language tools to show international-friendly-ness

the web page preferences can be altered to fit the needs of the viewer

there is a news page, showing somebody must be hired to display head a news page for the company or else the news would be outdated.

"binders, pencils, and pens, oh my! try shopping at Froogle." they not only work as a search engine, Group Page, but also run their own market place.

this is all at one glance thorugh the page. not even GOING to all teh rest of the pages. now this could sell ANYBODY to legitimacy- unless Google is running some white collar crime effort, but that is completely out of the scope.

so i think now adays, the condition of a website is a facor in judging the bussieness from an outside, inpersonal view. even poor little cooking schools in little Villages in Thailand have better websites than the ones that we have seen here.

get my point?

 

[Geddes]

Maybe I'm a little prejudice, but I consider a webpage kind of like a sign in front of a business. If it looks like someone let three 8 year olds have at the plywood with the finger paints, they will more than likely not get my business. Same goes for a webpage, you don't have to have all kinds of fancy flash stuff, but at least register a domian and pay some 8 year old $250 to make a decent looking site.

Business cards are a big joke too. A friend of mine used to carry five or six different ones, Circus Clown, International Art Smuggler, Poppy Farmer, all kind of rediculous stuff. His idea of a joke after a few cold ones.

This guy is a scammer, I see no other possiblity, even if it isn't on his card.

 

[Afraid_of_Fish]

I find it funny how the "look" of a website can make people decide whether or not to trust you. Folks, it's incredibly easy nowadays to make a "professional" looking website. That means nothing. Just because he didn't find a high schooler to make a neat looking website, or spend a few bucks on Frontpage and a few days to throw together some standard templates and digital photos doesn't say anything about how legit a business he runs. Hell, look at Google. Incredibly simple website, your 15 year old kids could have designed it, and they're about to go on an IPO worth kazillions of $$$. If you knew nothing about Google, and stumbled on it, what would you think?

Presentation means a lot. Every self-respecting buisness man knows that. If your stuff looks like crud, no ones going to buy it. You need to present your buisness (in every aspect) in a professional way. And if it is so easy to make a "Professional looking website", why didn't he? Because he doesn't give two shakes because it's a scam. What was the crack about high schoolers for? One of my biggest pet-peeves is stereotypes, and the other is feeling like I'm being talked down to, so if you could, leave us out of it.

And FYI, google isn't as simple as you might think.

On topic -- I looked at it some more, and it definetly is one of those "first webpage" things you can get from AOL or Yahoo.

<33 Jess

 

[MikeFerrara]

Some one on another list pointed out to me that Robert F. Burgess in his book "The Cave Divers" devotes a whole chapter to Norman Scott. I have the book but it's been a while since I looked at it so if I get a chance later today I'll dig out the book.

That's not to say that your girl freind is safe with him of course but he is apparantly what he says he is.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

I have no idea why Scott (if it was in fact Scott) said what he said to your girlfriend. I wouldn't care to speculate. I suspect it was fairly harmless. And his webpage could provide some clues to his current level of financing. But here's a bit of historical background. Norman Scott is getting old now, just like me, but in his day he was a somewhat less dramatically successful Mel Fisher - if you know anything about how Mel Fisher financed his operations and struggled for funding, etc. Robert F. Burgess in his excellent book "The Cave Divers" devotes an entire chapter (5) to talking about Scott and his support by National Geographic in working with Mexico's National Institute of Anthropology and History in excavating the Mayan Sacred Well at Chichen Itza in Yacatan. Burgess notes that Scott's expedition was "the largest of its kind ever attempted in the Western Hemisphere" (70). When Scott went to the Yucatan he took with him over $200,000.00 that he'd raised in funding, the loan of a fleet of 21 trucks from Ford Motor Company, a complete water filtration system from the Purex Corporation with filtration chemicals supplied by the Johns-Manville Corporation, and a wide range of other contributed equipment and supplies from two dozen other US firms. He grew up around Richmond, VA, and graduated from the University of Virginia with a degree in economics in 1952. Burgess describes him in the mid-1960s as having a widely known reputation as an "underwater explorer and treasure hunter". For a while afterwards Scott continued to secure funding and put together expeditions all over the world supported by wealthy individuals and companies interested in film, book, and TV rights to dramatic stories, but the funding dropped off as the years went by and few dramatic stories developed.

So...Norman Scott is many things, perhaps, but a fraud is not one of them. Gotta give the boy credit, he spent a whole lotta years searching out underwater mysteries with OPM (other people's money), and while he didn't find much...some people might say that the looking itself was half the fun.

Next time your girlfriend sees him, tell her to ask Scott to tip her with a genuine gold doubloon from one of the wrecks he's excavated!

FWIW.