18 yr old Instructor

[Tigerman]

You claim that "not many people can say they have experienced traumatic events and responded aprpriately" - Which is just bull****.

1. Enough to know that when you where young and reckless and thought you knew all, you didnt and you still dont would be a good place to start.

2. None, because as Ive said already, there is 40-yearolds thats experienced next to nothing. (Being able to legally joing me for a drink would be a good start though)

 

[zaberman1]

I'll learn from anyone.

The brain development issue is a real one and needs to be considered. The things that make you a great soldier are not necessarily the same attributes that I'd look for in a great instructor.

Mark Twain quipped: "When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."

The logical extension of our brains not being developed enough to teach is not only frightening but unwarranted. If you can produce this research so that I can credibly refute it, I will give the argument more credence. I am trying to find my research as we speak and it is in a large file, if you are interested in reading it, please pm me. It was done a little while ago for a research paper and specifically questions the claim of our young brains being incompetent. I know that Thalassamania is not arguing for or against the claim, just putting it out in the light (not a direct response to you). Although I am curious as to what attributes you look for in a great instructor and how an 18 y/o may not fit the mark as well as how an older instructor would. The standard by which we judge instructors may help shed more light on the issue at hand. I know 16 y/o that can perform multi-variate calc without a calculator (ok just 1) and 30 y/o that need one for performing simple addition. I also know 18 y/o that saved lives in extreme condition and 30 y/o that weep at the very sight of blood. It is difficult to judge a person...especially by their age.

 

[zaberman1]

You claim that "not many people can say they have experienced traumatic events and responded aprpriately" - Which is just bull****.

1. Enough to know that when you where young and reckless and thought you knew all, you didnt and you still dont would be a good place to start.

2. None, because as Ive said already, there is 40-yearolds thats experienced next to nothing. (Being able to legally joing me for a drink would be a good start though)

1. Of course I know I don't know everything. To think you are old and know everything is just as foolish...buy hey, we can't all be Socrates. Please don't falsely insinuate that I think I know everything...I am always in training and furthering my knowledge.

2. Chill dude, read my post a bit more carefully. Because I can't drink legally means I can't teach? This is foolish. Drinking inhibits the mind man. I would prefer a sober instructor than one with a hangover, those are few and far between.... With your attitude, I wouldn't even accept a drink if you bought it (even if I were 330 days older).

3. My comment about traumatic events is meant to draw on a flaw in your argument...a severe overgeneralization (in case you were making one). Obviously dude, you don't know me and can't judge me or my abilities to teach or my life experiences. If you would like references (including a list of people I have certified) or a detailed account of my upbringing/personal bio I can provide them in a pm. Of course, if you prefer the arbitrary standard of age, be my guest and refuse instruction from a potentially good a knowledgable instructor.

 

[Tigerman]

1. Of course I know I don't know everything. To think you are old and know everything is just as foolish...buy hey, we can't all be Socrates.

2. Chill dude, read my post a bit more carefully. Because I can't drink legally means I can't teach? This is foolish. Drinking inhibits the mind man. I would prefer a sober instructor than one with a hangover, those are few and far between.... With your attitude, I wouldn't even accept a drink if you bought it (even if I were 330 days older).

3. My comment about traumatic events is meant to draw on a flaw in your argument...a severe overgeneralization (in case you were making one).

1. You dont seem to really know

2. Im relaxed and I never suggested drinking in combination with diving and/or teaching, that would be setting a bad example. Of course alcohol inhibits the mind, thats why its being used as a recreational drug.

3. If you want to point out a flaw, its a bit smarter to just do it than make an even bigger one yourself. I also stated pretty clearly that I was speaking generally, unlike you.

 

[Teamcasa]

there would be no chance in my life time that an 18 year old would teach me anything. I don't care if he/she had 1,000 dives.!!!

Why?

If an instructor, of any age, has the ability to properly instruct, has the references, training, and experience I'd take a class from him/her.

 

[zaberman1]

1. You dont seem to really know

2. Im relaxed and I never suggested drinking in combination with diving and/or teaching, that would be setting a bad example. Of course alcohol inhibits the mind, thats why its being used as a recreational drug.

3. If you want to point out a flaw, its a bit smarter to just do it than make an even bigger one yourself. I also stated pretty clearly that I was speaking generally, unlike you.

1. Clever...But you don't either

2. If your are confused as to my argument, I will pm you a clarification. I was clearly emphasizing the point not to over generalize and using a 'specific example' (of myself) on how an overgeneralization could be wrong. Again, re-read all of them but specifically post #60

"I was just making a personal remark as to the events I have seen and witnessed including diver deaths, family deaths, heart attacks, etc. and not to lump all 18-20 y/o in the same category..."

3. I am done bickering, we are going off topic with snide personal insults. You are not my girlfriend/wife...I have too many of these args with her to get into one with you. If you would like to continue our battle, lets do it through pm, not pollute the board. Can't we all just get along? Sorry for my part...

Back to the discussion:

1. If an instructor can provide the references, it should be cool.
2. If an instructor possesses greater knowledge than their competition and a better ability to convey that knowledge, awesome.
3. If the instructor dives for fun and teaches consistently, great.
4. If they have experience and constantly expanding their knowledge, even better.
5. Don't be ageist
6. If you were under an age veil of ignorance, would the age really matter?

 

[I Dive]

Zaberman1, If I ever decide to go Tech, I will contact you and discuss possibly hiring you as my Instructor.

 

[Web Monkey]

I happened to hear about an instructor that is 18 years old in my area. His father is a technical instructor and a course director.

My question is. Do you think that instructor should have some time of actual diving experience before he can be awarded this title? (like a pilot flights hours)

Would you train with him ? (assume you only know the age and no other positive or negative info about him)

18 year-olds have lot of great things including enthusiasm, possibly knowledge and joints that don't hurt. However they do not have either experience (life, not SCUBA) or judgement, both of which require time.

I'm pretty certain that an 18 year old can meet the requirements for an OW instructor, but if I had a kid that wanted to take SCUBA lessons, I'd pick someone at least 30, maybe 40.

Terry

 

[RikRaeder]

I have to agree with the many others who have intoned that life experience, rather than dive experience would be the more questionable factor here. As an instructor at 18, I would imagine (but verify) that such a person would probably have been diving for quite a while. I would be less sure about their inter-personal abilities and teaching ability. It would have to be a very mature and exceptional individual for me to study under if they were only 18, but I wouldn't automatically rule it out.

 

[I Dive]

I find it really surprising what a low opinion many people have of the abilities of 18 year olds. I don't get it. I remember what I was doing in the military at that age, and trust me, it required a lot more responsiblity than any OW instructor will ever have. It required a lot more patience and self restraint than most people will ever be required to exhibit at any age. To say it required keeping a cool head under pressure is the understatement of the century. Anyone who thinks an 18 year old is destined to be wreckless, cannot react properly in a stressful situation, is not mature enough to lead, or whatever needs to do some research on what people that age are doing in the United States military (and other militaries as well). I would take teaching regulator recovery over a real world shoot/no shoot situation any day. I would rather deal with a free flowing regulator at depth than a person pointing a loaded weapon at me...