Of course....18 y/o have nothing to offer and cannot teach open water diving...they are young and less capable than a 40 y/o who just got his instructor license and dove for a year before deciding to make a little cash on the side. I find posts like these insulting because I was 18 years old and I taught many people at that age as well as saved the lives of some divers...I wouldn't trust half the divers or instructors I know that are 2x my age more than I would trust my 22 y/o tec buddy...come on guys, it depends on the person not the age. I am 20 now, would you trust me more? I have more dives under my belt and more teaching experience than many instructors I know. I work, teach, go to school, finishing 2 masters in 2 more years and then going for my PhD in Policy Analysis...seriously? I just taught a 65 y/o to become a rescue diver and is beginning his dm with the shop I work with when I'm on vacation, he said he doesn't want anyone else. Maybe its because I am 20 and not 18...
18 yr old Instructor
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Of course....18 y/o have nothing to offer and cannot teach open water diving...they are young and less capable than a 40 y/o who just got his instructor license and dove for a year before deciding to make a little cash on the side. I find posts like these insulting because I was 18 years old and I taught many people at that age as well as saved the lives of some divers...I wouldn't trust half the divers or instructors I know that are 2x my age more than I would trust my 22 y/o tec buddy...come on guys, it depends on the person not the age. I am 20 now, would you trust me more? I have more dives under my belt and more teaching experience than many instructors I know. I work, teach, go to school, finishing 2 masters in 2 more years and then going for my PhD in Policy Analysis...seriously? I just taught a 65 y/o to become a rescue diver and is beginning his dm with the shop I work with when I'm on vacation, he said he doesn't want anyone else. Maybe its because I am 20 and not 18...
Tigerman
Contributor
The age forms the person, usually. There is of course the 40-year old loners who havent experienced a thing in their life as well, but thats far less likely than the same for an 18-yearold and its also more likely that someone older have more experience with diving.
1. What is the 'brightline age' we can agree to that its ok to learn from someone because of their experience?
2. There are exceptions (I don't think you are denying this, I would just like clarification). Again, I know (probably because I am youthful) many younger divers that are more experienced and competent than older ones. That also applies to instructors...
3. Ask the instructor for references...very important in determining credibility..
4. I hope that other instructors take the time to post on this forum. I was one of the instructors (at 18) that helped train low viz wiz to be a dm, hopefully he can chime in too.
I would lean toward an older instructor for actual training. Mostly it would be about life experience and the ability to recognize the different styles required to get through to different students. Most people don't have all their interpersonal skills dialed in until their mid 20s.
If I had an 18 year old son with an instructor's certificate, I'd push him to go dive a variety of conditions and build up more experience in different places and types of diving. I'd also push him through some sort of education and philosophy curriculum. After that, he'd be ready to teach.
Working as a dive pro entails too much responsibility and risk that doesn't need to happen at 18. Not that he couldn't meet those responsibilities, but we read about accidents here regularly. An 18 year old could be ruined if a diver were lost under his charge moreso than someone with a few more years of life experience. I would want to protect him from that possibility.
Maybe I'd go for him as AI for a class, or assistant DM taking care of the gear on the boat and acting as a forward guide on a group dive with a "senior" DM watching over everyone. Those are a couple pro positions that might allow him to get pro experience without 100% of the pro responsibility. I don't think I'd be excited to have him as the senior guy in any group, though, no matter how good a diver he was.
When I started to read the thread, my first thought was of the people in the military who are thrust into life or death situations at such a young age. With minimal exception, they acquit themselves brilliantly. That said, I'm sure they would be more prepared for such activities given a few more years of training and experience.
As far as students go, I think the response here shows that he might not get the respect necessary as a primary instructor. If the students aren't giving full creedance to his teaching, then it doesn't matter how good he is, they just won't learn everything they are supposed to. Because of this, I might not want him as a primary instructor were I a dive shop owner either.
If I had an 18 year old son with an instructor's certificate, I'd push him to go dive a variety of conditions and build up more experience in different places and types of diving. I'd also push him through some sort of education and philosophy curriculum. After that, he'd be ready to teach.
Working as a dive pro entails too much responsibility and risk that doesn't need to happen at 18. Not that he couldn't meet those responsibilities, but we read about accidents here regularly. An 18 year old could be ruined if a diver were lost under his charge moreso than someone with a few more years of life experience. I would want to protect him from that possibility.
Maybe I'd go for him as AI for a class, or assistant DM taking care of the gear on the boat and acting as a forward guide on a group dive with a "senior" DM watching over everyone. Those are a couple pro positions that might allow him to get pro experience without 100% of the pro responsibility. I don't think I'd be excited to have him as the senior guy in any group, though, no matter how good a diver he was.
When I started to read the thread, my first thought was of the people in the military who are thrust into life or death situations at such a young age. With minimal exception, they acquit themselves brilliantly. That said, I'm sure they would be more prepared for such activities given a few more years of training and experience.
As far as students go, I think the response here shows that he might not get the respect necessary as a primary instructor. If the students aren't giving full creedance to his teaching, then it doesn't matter how good he is, they just won't learn everything they are supposed to. Because of this, I might not want him as a primary instructor were I a dive shop owner either.
I don't mean to hijack the thread...I will stop posting soon 
but I am very connected to this topic. I hope my comments are not coming off as rude, I just feel an adequate understanding of what is required of an instructor (both through the course and the prereqs), the type of person the instructor is, how many/quality of references they can produce, is 100% more important than their age. Now I do agree, AS A GENERAL STATEMENT, that many 18 year olds are not as experienced as older divers, it is not always the case, especially among diving instructors. I have seen traumatic events and have responded appropriately, I do not think many people (regardless of their age) can say the same. As an instructor and a 20 y/o I think its funny to read these comments because I teach literally every other day and dive for fun (both recreationally and technically) in between (atleast during the summers). I have another instructor working for me at FSU and she is fantastic and commanding. I would also like to know the qualifications of the people making some of these comments about 18 y/o's and would like to see ACTUAL arguments and not claims. All in all, there are many other things more important than age.
As far as responsibility is concerned, I think an 18 y/o who pushed themselves through instructor and is very ambitious about diving/teaching/and technically apt should (not always) be responsible. A couple months ago, I met a 13 y/o cave diver...better trim and understanding of dive mechanics than most of the old folks in the water (no offense).
but I am very connected to this topic. I hope my comments are not coming off as rude, I just feel an adequate understanding of what is required of an instructor (both through the course and the prereqs), the type of person the instructor is, how many/quality of references they can produce, is 100% more important than their age. Now I do agree, AS A GENERAL STATEMENT, that many 18 year olds are not as experienced as older divers, it is not always the case, especially among diving instructors. I have seen traumatic events and have responded appropriately, I do not think many people (regardless of their age) can say the same. As an instructor and a 20 y/o I think its funny to read these comments because I teach literally every other day and dive for fun (both recreationally and technically) in between (atleast during the summers). I have another instructor working for me at FSU and she is fantastic and commanding. I would also like to know the qualifications of the people making some of these comments about 18 y/o's and would like to see ACTUAL arguments and not claims. All in all, there are many other things more important than age. As far as responsibility is concerned, I think an 18 y/o who pushed themselves through instructor and is very ambitious about diving/teaching/and technically apt should (not always) be responsible. A couple months ago, I met a 13 y/o cave diver...better trim and understanding of dive mechanics than most of the old folks in the water (no offense).
I see nothing wrong with an 18 year old as an instructor. In order to become an instructor, a person must demonstrate mastery of diving skills, demonstrate teaching skills, and meet the requirements to become an instructor. I would not discount a person just because of their age. In fact, new instructors are more likely to stick to the standards and make sure their students are able to perform the required dive skills to get their dive cert.
I'm currently a divemaster candidate. My instructor is 22, the same age as my youngest daughter. My instructor knows her stuff, and is a great teacher.
Ron
I'm currently a divemaster candidate. My instructor is 22, the same age as my youngest daughter. My instructor knows her stuff, and is a great teacher.
Ron
Tigerman
Contributor
No offense, but that sentence right there is one of the reason why I say younger people lacks experience and maturity.
Maybe not many at 20 has experience with traumatic or stressful situations, but at twice the age most people do. Not neccesarilly while diving, but handling such situations and how you respond to them has the same baseline wherever they are.
simmonsjr
Contributor
With an attitude like that they never will.
Seriously, though if you can't allow yourself to learn something from everyone that you may come in contact with then you are going to miss out on so much that you might have otherwise learned.For the record, I was 23 when I led men in combat for the first time; my team leaders were 18-19 years old and they acquitted themselves brilliantly. Each of them was directly responsible for the lives of the three to five men on their teams, and I was able to trust every one of them to make the right decisions in the most chaotic of situations. We didn't lose a single man that entire tour.
Life experience alone does not equal maturity just as a crown of grey hair does not ensure that wisdom has been accumulated along with the years. If you ever find yourself in a situation like this check his references, talk to him face-to-face, but don't dismiss a qualified professional just because of age.
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I'll learn from anyone.
The brain development issue is a real one and needs to be considered. The things that make you a great soldier are not necessarily the same attributes that I'd look for in a great instructor.
Mark Twain quipped: "When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."
The brain development issue is a real one and needs to be considered. The things that make you a great soldier are not necessarily the same attributes that I'd look for in a great instructor.
Mark Twain quipped: "When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."
If you read my other posts, you would see that I concede to that point. I was just making a personal remark as to the events I have seen and witnessed including diver deaths, family deaths, heart attacks, etc. and not to lump all 18-20 y/o in the same category because we may have more life experience than many people 2x our age. We may have fought in wars, saved lives, witnessed loved ones perish, etc. It is insulting and arrogant to remark otherwise. Many of the students I have taught and many of the people I have dealt with lack the maturity to do half the things many of us instructors do on a daily basis. Also, please look at my other arguments... It is an insult to claim I or others are not mature enough without knowing us first, but I don't think you meant it that way
. I guarantee if you had a class with me or any other 'younger instructors' I work with and were absent minded as to our age, you would not be able to tell the difference. If we possess the maturity whether through life experience or level of diving, credit is deserved. I am a technical diver and very critical of my and other divers technique and gear because I have seen sh** hit the fan, maybe your young instructor has too. I have about 6 args above with warrants as to why its ok for an 18 y/o to teach...If I was in a car accident and had a choice between a 27 year old doc graduating top of his class at Johns Hopkins as a board certified trauma surgeon and a 65 y/o just out of med school, I would go with the 27 year old. Maybe thats not a great example but I am tired and had a long day...Don't dismiss our abilities because of our age and don't dismiss us because you think we lack critical experience. I ask again:
1. What do you mean by enough experience?
2. What age is the standard age we should 'trust scuba instructors' to teach?
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