PADI tables finally going away?

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the earlier in the diving career a student can turn their brain off the better!
kudos!
Some people manage to close theirs as well! :D kudos!
 
Unless everyone in the class had the same computer, I would find it problematic to show them how to use their computers in class. Very confusing for them and me...

Seems that using the computer can be learned by reading the manual...if you already have been trained in the basic theory and terminology.

NetDoc has been carrying this argument from the SDI point of view, but the OP talked about PADI. Here are some excerpts from the latest Undersea Journal, PADI's magazines for its professional members.

Students will use ...
a study guide called How to Use and Choose Dive Computers, ...a training tool that gives student divers computer-assisted diving guidelines and information to check before each dive. This information applies generically to dive computers, keeping it current and relevant, even when new computers become available.

...

Student divers ...should be prepared to show they understand how to plan and execute a dive with their computer. Verify their knowledge by having them complete a modified Chapter 4 and 5 Knowledge Review, and take a modified Quiz 4 and Final Exam that has dive-computer function and use questions in place of RDP questions.

For practical application, have students show you they can use their computer's dive planning function to find the allowable dive time for a range of dive depths. And, after a dive, have them show you they can use their computer to recall the dive depth and time for logging and planning subsequent dives.

Another great learning tool is the new PADI Dive Computer Simulator. This application will allow your student divers to watch how a generic dive computer behaves as they (or you in a class presentation) run it through virtual computer dives with various depths and bottom times.
 
.......Another great learning tool is the new PADI Dive Computer Simulator. This application will allow your student divers to watch how a generic dive computer behaves as they (or you in a class presentation) run it through virtual computer dives with various depths and bottom times......

Why teaching students using a non existing (generic) dive computer instead of teaching them with an existing (specific) one?

Alberto
 
DiveNav... how many different variations would PADI have to write if they did it for specific computers?

PADI is being practical by writing from a gneric point of view. Plus... no matter how different the buttons and screens are... all computers do the same thing for OW students... meausre BT, Depth, and NDL. Some of them allow table based planning... thus the reduced need for the PADI tables... they are in the computer!
 
Why teaching students using a non existing (generic) dive computer instead of teaching them with an existing (specific) one?

Alberto

which specific one, and how to have it do the dives in the class is a problem
 
Just to add to the requirements. SEI requires students to have as a minimum: mask, snorkel, fins,
scuba cylinder and valve, buoyancy compensator with low pressure power inflator, regulator with primary and
alternate air source (active scuba air delivery system), submersible pressure gauge, weight ballast system,
timing device, depth gauge and wet suit (if required).
The gear I use from the shop usually has a console with SPG, Depth gauge, and Compass. I require the students to have a timing device. Most rental places I've seen do not have comps in their gear. THey will need a watch anyway.

So far that has not been an issue. If it becomes necessary I have an extra bottom timer, 2 casio gshocks, and 2 dive watches that they may borrow. The shop will also rent them a computer but that is their choice. As I posted previously I really would like my students to get comfortable with the tables and stay very conservative while working on things like buoyancy, trim, and gas management. There is no need for them to have a device that many seem to follow blindly and push the NDL's by diving it right into the yellow. I have seen a number of threads talking about this and some who quite clearly have no idea how to use the computer they have. And one recent one when asked what did the tables give for the dive profile that incurred a significant deco obligation when other computers gave none, the response was along the lines of "I don't know. Don't use tables, that's what the computer is for". Just what do they see in that extra 5,10, or even 15 minutes that they can't see on a subsequent dive. I would prefer they plan conservative dives and stick to those plans. It can be very beneficial to not fight the crowds at the ladder, have their gear off and stowed in an easy relaxed manner instead of dodging others, and have less N2 on board for the next dive. They may even feel better overall for not pushing the limits of not only the computer but perhaps their exposure protection, and own physical limits.

I guess it comes down to a statement that was in a recent issue of sport diver in which the editor stated that he loves dive computers. Becasue he does not have to think! I do not want to dive with non thinking divers and I advise my students to stay away from them as well.
 
Just to add to the requirements. SEI requires students to have as a minimum: submersible pressure gauge, timing device, depth gauge
The table has been updated!Thanks!
As I posted previously I really would like my students to get comfortable with the tables and stay very conservative while working on things like buoyancy, trim, and gas management.
Good, I further reduce task loading with the use of a PDC.
There is no need for them to have a device that many seem to follow blindly and push the NDL's by diving it right into the yellow.
Sounds like they didn't get good training, huh? That's probably the best argument for teaching PDCs I have read! If not exclusively, then at least in conjunction with tables.
I have seen a number of threads talking about this and some who quite clearly have no idea how to use the computer they have.
Too bad they weren't trained! It sounds like they have bought the lie that you don't need to think to use a PDC. It's far more than learning which buttons to push for a particular function. No, it's not hard but why do we allow this to be a function of sheer chance?
I guess it comes down to a statement that was in a recent issue of sport diver in which the editor stated that he loves dive computers. Becasue he does not have to think! I do not want to dive with non thinking divers and I advise my students to stay away from them as well.
See how pervasive this inability to USE the PDC as a tool is? Granted, PDCs allow you not to think about TABLES, but they do not allow you to turn your brain off completely as some would portray it. That's just a myth that would have evaporated with proper training. In fact, a lot of these myths about PDCs have been able to take hold MOSTLY because instructors refuse to teach them, or are just afraid of the technology. Just think about how many myths you deal with when you teach NitrOx. Training is not just a good idea, it's essential to using your gear in a safe and competent manner. You wouldn't ask a student to use tables without training, so what is the difference with PDCs?
 
That's probably the best argument for teaching PDCs I have read! If not exclusively, then at least in conjunction with tables.

There it is...the answer to stop this argument lol.

Teach BOTH!

Now let's pen an email and send it to all of the agencies and get the ball rolling :eek:)
 
Not sure about PADI but NAUI covers computers in their book. Every single student I see on the boat is learning both the tables and computer. When they return to the dock they have their computers out next to their tables and dive logs. They (and I) already learn both.

I say we return to the #2 post in this thread as it was perfectly said.
 
If you look at point #2 in 330Bar's list, you can see who is assigned the task of thinking. PADI also discourages students under "master diver" level from diving without an instructor present. So, I'm guessing that "officially" PADI diver-buddy independence is intended to be a core skill for the very few. Other agencies teach a higher degree of self-reliance earlier on. This thread seems to be split between those who are fine with dive instruction's drift towards passport diving and those who are lamenting or even fighting the erosion of rigor and self-reliance. I took both NAUI and PADI basic open water. I started diving by paying instructors for instruction and diving with only my buddy, never changed. I started this shortly after both OW classes and have a couple of really bad dives in my log to prove it. Whose fault would that be? Anything that stresses personal skills resonates with me because, twice proven, that is what keeps me alive. However, I'm also sensitive to those who just want to have a fun dive, look at stuff, and hang out with other divers. That's just fine with me, no judgement, just different interests. How are they best served? I dive with two computers, one that I know inside and out, and one that I need to learn a hell of a lot better so that it will help get me back from where I'm now headed. In addition, I carry turn pressures and OH S***! highly abbreviated air 'tables' cut at 5 worst-case depths and the limits of my gas load for the planned dive. Anything past that is unfortunately, purely theoretical. All divers are not alike, one style of instruction does not fit all.
 
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