Subtle sexism among instructors

[MightyDiver]

Originally posted by otter-cat
However, I still think that there is a lot of sexism among divers in general. There seem to be a lot of men diving who are predisposed to thinking that women are constantly in need of a little extra help, a little extra supervision.

I guess I simply see it differently. At least down here in Texas I am very pleased to see the largely male contingent of divers well mannered gentlemen who offer to help or jump right in to help if they see you struggling. The truth is that yes I am smaller and physically weaker than they are and I do appreciate the kindness and common courtesy offered by anyone. I like that there is room for us to not only be divers but to be Ladies and Gentlemen enthusiastically sharing a sport instead of competing.

If someone does speak down towards me it says nothing of me. I reply, if needed, in the kindest generous way possible and I mean it. I saddens me to see so many men afraid to be simply courteous to an unknown female for fear of being labelled or blasted. I can understand their reluctance and how uncomfortable it must be to those who were reared to be kind, practical and helpful.

I just want to say 'Thank you!' to all the Lady and Gentleman divers out there who make this sport enjoyable and welcoming. I was anxious when we first began our diving lessons that perhaps there wasn't room for any but the physically strongest women and I'm glad that was quickly proved false. I was very glad for the positive welcome from the male divers I've met and their encouragement. I suppose my turn will come when I am faced with a truly sexist diver but so far I've been very lucky indeed.

 

[jbd]

MightyDiver you make an excellent point.

 

[Zept]

I also want to support MightyDiver.

I'm small and slightly built. I could lift weights from now until eternity, or take steroids, or do other daft things, but I'd still be weaker than the average diver. I can lift an AL80, but if someone strong has turned it off, I won't be able to turn it on again. Sometimes I have to ask for help.

OTOH, I'm good at table calculations (not through dedication, I just have the right sort of brain), I carry around a load of spare parts that I'm happy to share, and when I did the MFA course, I was the person everyone wanted to lift... so I'm not without my uses! I help other people, other people help me, it works out okay in the end.

Zept

 

[otter-cat]

jbd,

The problem is that even though I really AM a safe, consciencious, competent diver, and perform accordingly on all my dives, it often seems that some male divers STILL treat me as though I am not. This is what infuriates me. I am displaying competence, but they fail to NOTICE, I believe because I am female. Obviously this doesn't apply to all male divers, but enough that it is something I encounter on an occasional basis, and it upsets me.

As far as help goes, I am in no way opposed to any offer of help, particularly if I am struggling to lift something. What I don't like is when people try to insist on doing something for me even after I have indicated, politely, "no thank you," I am not in need of their help. I ask for and accept assistance when necessary, but if I don't need it, I don't like having people treat me as if I do need it.

That is the subtle type of sexism that drives me mad!

otter-cat

 

[cougar]

The truth is that yes I am smaller and physically weaker than they are and I do appreciate the kindness and common courtesy offered by anyone.

Mighty Diver's comment brought a smile to my face as I recalled aconversation I had many years ago with with the coach of an Olympic gymnast, He made the matter of fact comment that woman are always better gymnasts. Being born female but believing that the gender with the mangled X chromosone that is missing a leg should be protected, I challenged him on his asertion.

His reply was,"Women don't have the strength that men have. This means they can't muscle their way through things. If they are to be successful, they have to do it right. My female gymnasts can't screw up and power their way through a move...so they become technically much better than the men. Some woman are stronger than others...but the strongest woman still has less muscle than the strongest men. They have to be better and do it right everytime." This may apply to a lot of other things.

The other trick I have learned is to use the hell out of chauvinism when I run into it. I have been a Certified Legal Investigator for more years than I want to count. So long...that when I first joined my national association, I used to hear , "Oh, whose wife are you??" Over the years I learned that being female was an enormous advantage in an investigation. The more sexist my male witnesses were,the more information they would willing hand me because they assumed I couldn't comprehend the technical aspects. I went away laughing and parlayed my advantage into a very successful career.

Over the years I have learned that if I want to be taken seriously...I just do what I'm doing very well...and eventually most of the sexist come around to reality. The ones that don't are worth a good laugh. Long live male chauvinism! If it ever goes away..I'll have to work a lot harder ;-0

 

[jbd]

Those are the guys that feel they have to be in control(not necessarily in charge) of everything. It would shame them if something went wrong and they felt some sense of responsibility. They typically have the thought that if you want something done right, do it yourself. This translates into, I want your gear on correctly so I'll do it for you. And of course only they can know what is the right way.

In more social settings like groups of people diving they will approach women because its safer than approaching another man and forcing his ways on on him.

That whole approach drives me nuts also.

 

[vr]

Originally posted by art.chick
I wondered if any of you had encountered subtle sexist remarks or behavior with male or female diving instructors, comments about how women get colder easier,

How is that sexism? Many (not all) women do get colder faster than men and many women also use less air. That''s not sexism. It's physiological differences. Sexism is attitudinal.

 

[scubaskcubrat]

I don't belive I have ever had to deal with subtle sexism, one or two people have been blatent about it but they are also morons. Both of my instuctors were male and they did point out women getting colder then men faster etc.. But most of it was true. And yes they would joke about the close contact that is required when teaching, but that's all it ever was jokes. I don't feel that sexism is a problem with 99% of divers and the few that are sexest to other divers are in everything they do.

 

[art.chick]

VR,
I am not interested in the frequency of coldness or air use among various demographics. Why can't an instructor (who has a LOT of influence on students' expectations) just say, "Everyone gets cold/tired/low on air at a different rate" rather than attaching a "feminine" label to certain reactions? I have little fear that my girl dive buddies will admit they are cold/tired/ uncomfortable & need to end a dive. What scares me is the macho tendancy of even some mique-toasty men who will be afraid to seem effeminate even when they really are too cold/tired, etc to be safe or happy.

In my view, if you really want to do a breakdown on which demographic reacts in which way to the elements, we could "observe" tendancies among racial & age & body-type groups & sexual orientations and promote expectations about everybody. Like I say, gender differentiation is still considered acceptable where other differentiation is recognized as prejudice. Does an OW class really lose anything by losing the labels? Or do we wives still need an underwater equivalent of, "Not tonight, Honey, I have a headache?"

 

[wreckchick]

I absolutely agree that there are no absolutes.

Some men may get cold before some women, use less air, etc. However, as the lone female in my class, it was ok with me to have it explained that there are some generalizations that play true in scuba.

It is helpful to know that I'm not a huge wimp 'cause I'm cold when all the guys are fine; that I will probably need to pay more attention to my husband's air then my own because he will use more.

As a beginner, the more realistic picture I have as to how my body will react to an underwater environment, the safer I will be; and I can also choose equipment (read wetsuit) that will better accomodate my reality.

JMHO,

Rachel