Question on Form - How many logged dives since certified?

[Eric Sedletzky]

That is why logged dives are really meaningless. A diver can create any sort of log you want in no time. The diver who bought my first computer was a beginner, but his computer log showed hundreds of dives to a maximum depth of 181 feet.

Now, put yourself in a dive operator's place when someone signs up for an advanced dive for which your insurance requires divers with advanced experience. You may argue all you want about whether that easily faked log is any better than an AOW card, but the AOW card has one significant advantage--someone else made the decision. If a diver dies on a deep dive in a way suggesting inadequate preparation, and you get sued, which of the following two statements would you prefer to make when testifying?

1. As standard policy, we require divers to show evidence of adequate training for the dive. I saw his logbook, and after a careful review of the different dives he had done up to that point, I made the decision that he would be OK. It was a judgment call.
2. As standard policy, we require an AOW card, and he had one.

That kind of circles back to the beaten to death topic of the value of AOW in any sort of commercial application, such as dive boats using it as a guarantee of competency. One try-me dive of five different specialties without any further or specific training in any of the five, that shouldn’t be any sort of certification that can be used. A specialty cert after AOW yes, but AOW by itself no.
I would rather see a log book of a basic OW diver, look at their gear, and have a discussion with the them about experience, how long they’ve been diving, etc. before I’d blindly trust an AOW diver with 9 total dives to their name (which is possible).
But for legality reasons I see your point.

 

[Beau Holden]

One of my favorite dives is an area with zero-vis, but tons of sunglasses and other loot, that the only way you'll find anything is by feel and effectively "dredging" the bottom.

Used to dive the local lakes in NE Indiana and many of those were 2 feet to zero and we had a blast and taught me a lot. Let us fine and old trash pile and it was like finding gold. Whole dive was by feel.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Used to dive the local lakes in NE Indiana and many of those were 2 feet to zero and we had a blast and taught me a lot. Let us fine and old trash pile and it was like finding gold. Whole dive was by feel.

Any fishing line,, or maybe a big ‘ol catfish sliding out from underneath you?

 

[Beau Holden]

Any fishing line,, or maybe a big ‘ol catfish sliding out from underneath you?

Not a lot of fishing line, but found a lot of lures. Never needed to buy any more for fishing up there. The coolest thing, about fish, was me and a guy was diving this one lake on late winter and we came up on the 3 to 4 foot thing just kind of resting on the muck bottom. I swam over to and just as I was about touch it all hell broke loose. It was a big sturgeon. Scared the heck out of me for a moment. Only time I have seen one in the water except for Gilboa Quarry back in 2008 or so.

 

[ggunn]

That is why logged dives are really meaningless. A diver can create any sort of log you want in no time. The diver who bought my first computer was a beginner, but his computer log showed hundreds of dives to a maximum depth of 181 feet.

Now, put yourself in a dive operator's place when someone signs up for an advanced dive for which your insurance requires divers with advanced experience. You may argue all you want about whether that easily faked log is any better than an AOW card, but the AOW card has one significant advantage--someone else made the decision. If a diver dies on a deep dive in a way suggesting inadequate preparation, and you get sued, which of the following two statements would you prefer to make when testifying?

1. As standard policy, we require divers to show evidence of adequate training or experience for the dive. I saw his logbook, and after a careful review of the different dives he had done up to that point, I made the decision that he would be OK. It was a judgment call.
2. As standard policy, we require an AOW card, and he had one.

But OTOH, I hear of many divers going straight into AOW from OW with only a few dives under their belt. I have been diving for nearly 30 years with something like 1000 dives. Are they more advanced than I am?

 

[Beau Holden]

I hear of many divers going straight into AOW from OW with only a few dives under their belt

I did this when I first certified. Was I advanced? Heck no, but I had a card I use to open locked doors with.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I did this when I first certified. Was I advanced? Heck no, but I had a card I use to open locked doors with.

What was the environment that you got your OW and AOW?

 

[Beau Holden]

What was the environment that you got your OW and AOW?

Gilboa Quarry in NW Ohio. I think it was early to mid spring when we started. Water temps in the 60s. Decent vis during training with students kicking things up. Actually was some decent training. Before I moved from up there, I probably had 600 plus dives there. I quit logging or worrying about the count after 100 or so.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Gilboa Quarry in NW Ohio. I think it was early to mid spring when we started. Water temps in the 60s. Decent vis during training with students kicking things up. Actually was some decent training. Before I moved from up there, I probably had 600 plus dives there. I quit logging or worrying about the count after 100 or so.

If you were to have come to California to dive right after AOW, I would have recommended some where like Catalina Island, Casino Point, for a shore dive - maybe with a guide?
For a boat dive I would have recommended a beginner Catalina boat, maybe with an OW class on board. Pick a good buddy and tool around in the 40’-50’ range. Socal has water in the mid 60’s so it would be what you were used to. The only difference is it’s the ocean and the ocean moves.
Also for boat diving, the Spectre out of Ventura, they do some pretty easy sites 40’ average, especially if they have OW class on board. They go to some pretty benign spots but the diving is good and there’s a lot to see.
At that point in your training I wouldn’t have recommend any Monterey boats. They hit some pretty advanced sites, deep, cold, surge, etc.

Cozumel, probably a completely different story.

 

[tursiops]

I would rather see a log book of a basic OW diver, look at their gear, and have a discussion with the them about experience, how long they’ve been diving, etc. before I’d blindly trust an AOW diver with 9 total dives to their name (which is possible).

Nothing prevents you from doing both.