Question on Form - How many logged dives since certified?

[ggunn]

Agreed that "diving experience" can mean many different things.

Currents is an area I have almost ZERO experience, and I'm prone to cramping if I'm not careful. I'd like to get that experience at some point, but need to take a few steps to get there.

However, put me in an absolute-zero-vis open water dive where you can't see your computer 3 inches away and I've done that dozens of times. One of my favorite dives is an area with zero-vis, but tons of sunglasses and other loot, that the only way you'll find anything is by feel and effectively "dredging" the bottom. I'm fairly sure there are plenty of divers with more than 2x my experience who wouldn't do the dive I just described.

Diving in current is not that big of a deal; there are a couple of easily adopted skills that you need to acquire (don't kick against the current, hide in the lee of coral and big sponges to let the group catch up, find the slowest current down on flat sand, carry an SMB in case you get separated, etc.), but most divers acclimate to conditions pretty easily.

But "absolute-zero-vis" diving? I'm not doing that; you cannot make me.

 

[tridacna]

Who on the staff of a typical dive op is qualified to make a judgement on which medication(s) would be an impediment to diving safely?

That’s exactly why you will need a doctor’s sign off.

 

[L13]

Diving in current is not that big of a deal;
...
But "absolute-zero-vis" diving? I'm not doing that; you cannot make me.

It think that is the point. Diving in conditions that you are used to is no big deal. Something you haven't done a lot of is a big deal! Now, total amount of experience does matter, but only if it is at least somewhat varied. Also some gain experience faster than others, so dive count alone doesn't mean everything, even if they are "relevant" dives.

 

[tursiops]

Who on the staff of a typical dive op is qualified to make a judgement on which medication(s) would be an impediment to diving safely?

Zero. That is why they are not asked to make that judgement. YOU say you are taking a prescription drug other than a contraceptive pill.....and the wire is tripped. See a doctor. The dive op is not involved in any decision.

 

[boulderjohn]

Zero. That is why they are not asked to make that judgement. YOU say you are taking a prescription drug other than a contraceptive pill.....and the wire is tripped. See a doctor. The dive op is not involved in any decision.

That is true for most agencies and organizations, but not for all.

When I was a UTD student, we had to do a new medical form for every class, even if it was only a week after the class before. It was done online. It was exhaustively long, with no built-in memory of previous forms. There was no doctor signoff--UTD made the decision based upon your very precise answers to the questions on the form.

My last UTD class was a one night classroom session led by agency owner Andrew Georgitis. I had just finished another class and was surprised to find that the medical form had to be filled in yet again for a classroom-only session. When I came to the prescription medical section, where I had to fill in the exact medications I was taking and the dosage, it was getting late for me, and I thought "Screw it! They know my meds. They haven't changed in the last couple weeks." I skipped that part of the form.

We had a few weeks to go before that class, and we did a weekend of diving before then. All our trips involved motel stays, and I roomed with the instructor that weekend. I came into the room to find the instructor going through my toilet kit. I asked him what he was doing. He said that I had not filled in the medication section on the medical form the upcoming class, and Andrew had called and told him to find out what medications I was taking. The fact that he didn't just ask me to fill in the form made me assume they thought I was trying to hide something.

 

[boulderjohn]

This is part of the usual waiver from used in Australia:

PART 2: TO BE COMPLETED BY CERTIFIED DIVERS ONLY DIVING EXPERIENCE (circle Yes or No where applicable)

Certification Agency (i.e. PADI, NAUI etc.): ________________
Have you dived in the ocean before? Yes No
Level of Certification: _________________________________
Have you dived in a current before? Yes No
Date of Certification: _________________________________
Have you dived when surface conditions were other than calm? Yes No
Number of dives to date: ______________________________
Have you done a night dive before? Yes No
Date of your last dive: _________________________________
Do you intend on flying within 24hrs from the last dive of this trip? Yes No
Deepest dive you have done: ___________________________

NOTE - If you are affected by any of the points listed in below we will require a medical clearance from a doctor before you can dive

1. Since completing your last dive medical have you suffered any illness, injury or surgery that may effect your ability to dive safely? Yes No
2. Are you currently suffering any illness or injury? Yes No
3. Are you currently taking any prescription medication other than the contraceptive pill? Yes No
4. Is there any other condition, fact or circumstance that may affect your fitness or ability to dive safely? Yes No

Do a ScubaBoard search and you will find many posts from Australia saying that a doctor's approval is required for all divers. Before my friends and I went a few years ago, we were absolutely advised by a local diving authority that we would need a signed medical form to dive in Australia. We were planning to dive with two different operators while there, so we brought copies for each of them.

Neither operator required a medical form. Both operators had a simple sentence for us to initial that said we did not have any medical condition that could cause a problem in diving. With one operator, the person checking us in looked at our forms with puzzlement. It seemed like she had never seen anything like it before. On that dive, all of that paperwork was handled on the way out to the reef. They didn't know a thing about us before we paid for the trip and set out to the reef. They had not even checked for C-cards.

As for our experience levels, we didn't have anything like this form on either trip.

• The first was a day trip, and they didn't care one bit about our experience. Our group got a lecture during the ride that pretty much repeated all the information in a standard OW class. We then did 3 dives at about the level of OW certification dive #4.
• On the liveaboard, they looked at our C-cards briefly and then did a checkout dive. Based on that dive, we were assigned to different groups at different ability levels with different guides for each. My friends and I were the only ones allowed to dive without a guide. That was based entirely on the checkout dive.

 

[tursiops]

That is true for most agencies and organizations, but not for all.

When I was a UTD student, we had to do a new medical form for every class, even if it was only a week after the class before. It was done online. It was exhaustively long, with no built-in memory of previous forms. There was no doctor signoff--UTD made the decision based upon your very precise answers to the questions on the form.

My last UTD class was a one night classroom session led by agency owner Andrew Georgitis. I had just finished another class and was surprised to find that the medical form had to be filled in yet again for a classroom-only session. When I came to the prescription medical section, where I had to fill in the exact medications I was taking and the dosage, it was getting late for me, and I thought "Screw it! They know my meds. They haven't changed in the last couple weeks." I skipped that part of the form.

We had a few weeks to go before that class, and we did a weekend of diving before then. All our trips involved motel stays, and I roomed with the instructor that weekend. I came into the room to find the instructor going through my toilet kit. I asked him what he was doing. He said that I had not filled in the medication section on the medical form the upcoming class, and Andrew had called and told him to find out what medications I was taking. The fact that he didn't just ask me to fill in the form made me assume they thought I was trying to hide something.

You keep doing this...using UTD as a story to illustrate a point. But usually conflating old UTD policies with whatever may be current. AG and GI3 are hardly good examples of best (or even current) practices.

 

[L13]

We had a few weeks to go before that class, and we did a weekend of diving before then. All our trips involved motel stays, and I roomed with the instructor that weekend. I came into the room to find the instructor going through my toilet kit. I asked him what he was doing. He said that I had not filled in the medication section on the medical form the upcoming class, and Andrew had called and told him to find out what medications I was taking. The fact that he didn't just ask me to fill in the form made me assume they thought I was trying to hide something.

This strikes me as blatantly illegal behavior. And even if it isn't, it is a clear sign that these are people I would want nothing to do with.

Is this really representative of UTD?

 

[boulderjohn]

You keep doing this...using UTD as a story to illustrate a point. But usually conflating old UTD policies with whatever may be current. AG and GI3 are hardly good examples of best (or even current) practices.

This strikes me as blatantly illegal behavior. And even if it isn't, it is a clear sign that these are people I would want nothing to do with.

Is this really representative of UTD?

I left UTD shortly after that and do not know their current policies. Those were their policies then.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I know people who fill scuba cylinders to use to fill airsoft/paintball cylinders. It’s much cheaper than them buying a regular compressor that can do 3000 psi. I just hope they are filling air not EANx

There’s also people using compressed air for airbrushing, running airtools, and nail guns in locations where a portable air supply is the best option. CO2 can be used, but for airbrushing in an enclosed space it can be hazardous. I don’t see welding shops getting sued over mishaps that happen with the gasses they sell.
If the customer signs a waiver at the dive shop stating what they will be using the compressed air for this should be good enough.
Once a tank leaves the dive shop they have no control over who or how that tank gets used.
Somebody could enable an uncertified diver by renting or getting tank filled for them. The dive shop has nothing to do with this.
That’s about as stupid as putting gas in my car then getting in a wreck five minutes later and suing the gas station because they supplied the gas that got me to the spot where I wrecked.
This whole thing is absurd.
I want to see all the factual data regarding all the lawsuits filed and won in relation to everything posted about tank fills and diver logs and liability being spewed in this thread.

Normal run-away speculation on scubaboard!