Question on Form - How many logged dives since certified?

[ggunn]

Not much.

Time at Depth
First of all, we don't know exactly how long they were at what depth. If diving the PADI air tables, the maximum time for 70 feet is 40 minutes, and it is 5 minutes for 60 feet. I assume they were doing a multi-level dive with a computer, and I would guess that would be close to NDLs. Of course, we don't know how precise the original estimates of time and depth were. It is very possible there are no issues there.

Experience and Depth
We don't know if 5th dive includes the OW dives, but that isn't a big deal. Divers at all levels are told to extend their limits through experience and training. They should do so with a degree of caution. New divers have a training level of 60 feet. These dives decided it was OK to extend their dive experience to a range of 65-85 feet while with a professional divemaster. That seems pretty reasonable to me.

You said, "it happens." How often? If you asked me to make an estimate of how many brand new divers go to Cozumel each year and do that kind of a dive right off the bat, my wild guess would be about 5,000. So, yes, it happens. A lot.

About 20 years ago while diving in Cozumel, a few of us talked our dive operator into doing the Devil's Throat (about 125 feet) the next day. When we got in the boat, we were surprised when a young couple joined us. Yes, they knew we were going to Devil's throat--they were on the right boat. We had a great dive, and that young couple was fantastic. They descended quickly and showed great buoyancy control in the swim through. Back on the boat during the surface interval, we learned that they had just gotten certified, and that was their first dive after certification. Now, I do not in any way recommend that, but the fact is that they were just fine on the dive. Not every new diver is a floundering fool.

Also, an arbitrary depth limit irrespective of conditions is kind of silly. 80 feet around Cozumel is very different from 80 feet in Puget Sound.

 

[Pressurehead]

New divers have a training level of 60 feet. These dives decided it was OK to extend their dive experience to a range of 65-85 feet while with a professional divemaster.

OK, I get it.
When I was running a charter boat for divers, new divers [with the below said dives, this is in Australia]

We don't know if 5th dive includes the OW dives

Even with a professional were told not to exceed their training limit, get the training first.
What others do is up to them.

 

[boulderjohn]

Even with a professional were told not to exceed their training limit, get the training first.
What others do is up to them.

Here's the problem. When PADI at least says not to exceed the limits of your experience and training, they mean either or both will do. There are places where you even see the phrase and/or rather than just and. I have confirmed that with PADI more than once.

If you require specific training certifications as the only measure, you are imposing your own rules on the diver. You have the right to do that, but you should tell the diver that those are your rules, not any agency's.

BTW, I have never seen this rule anywhere that I have dived. The closest to that rule is a dive operation that did respect the Scuba Diver certification limits, but that is perfectly legitimate because of the limits of that certification.

I myself did my first diving after OW certification in Cozumel. You'll have a hard time find a dive operator there who will do a first dive shallower than 60 feet unless you have made special arrangements.

 

[ggunn]

I myself did my first diving after OW certification in Cozumel. You'll have a hard time find a dive operator there who will do a first dive shallower than 60 feet unless you have made special arrangements.

Yo tambien, and so did my wife; she and I were certed at the same time but by different agencies. Hers was PADI and mine was PDIC. Her instructor told her to stay above 60' but mine did not. By the end of the 10 day trip we were routinely going to ~80'.

 

[BRT]

Yo tambien, and so did my wife; she and I were certed at the same time but by different agencies. Hers was PADI and mine was PDIC. Her instructor told her to stay above 60' but mine did not. By the end of the 10 day trip we were routinely going to ~80'.

80 is the new 60.

 

[Pressurehead]

you should tell the diver that those are your rules, not any agency's.

I managed to not get sued and the 2 agency's I used I never had a problem [ did not agree on some things, that's another story] in 35+ years, so I will leave it at that.

 

[boulderjohn]

I managed to not get sued and the 2 agency's I used I never had a problem [ did not agree on some things, that's another story] in 35+ years, so I will leave it at that.

As I have probably said a few hundred times on ScubaBoard, a dive operator can make up whatever rules they want. No one would have any grounds to sue you for enforcing those rules that you set up. In fact, as long as we are talking down under, the Mike Ball organization was once fined for not enforcing one if its own rules. No law required it, but they advertised a requirement that was then waived for a diver who later died.

It bugs me, though, when an operator makes its own rules and then lies about it. When I did a liveaboard in Australia a few years ago, they imposed two unpopular rules on us and said sorry, they had no choice because they had to follow PADI rules. I challenged them separately, pointing out that the two rules were neither PADI "rules" or even recommendations. They finally admitted it was company policy, but they wanted people mad at PADI, not the company.

 

[ReefHound]

About 20 years ago while diving in Cozumel, a few of us talked our dive operator into doing the Devil's Throat (about 125 feet) the next day. When we got in the boat, we were surprised when a young couple joined us. Yes, they knew we were going to Devil's throat--they were on the right boat. We had a great dive, and that young couple was fantastic. They descended quickly and showed great buoyancy control in the swim through. Back on the boat during the surface interval, we learned that they had just gotten certified, and that was their first dive after certification. Now, I do not in any way recommend that, but the fact is that they were just fine on the dive. Not every new diver is a floundering fool.

I agree with the overall theme of your post but this is worth making the point - scuba diving is easy... until it isn't. The concern isn't how a new diver will handle a 120' swim-thru dive when all goes well. The concern is how they will handle it when it all goes wrong.

 

[boulderjohn]

I agree with the overall theme of your post but this is worth making the point - scuba diving is easy... until it isn't. The concern isn't how a new diver will handle a 120' swim-thru dive when all goes well. The concern is how they will handle it when it all goes wrong.

...and that is why I said I would not recommend that dive. On the other hand, I do not have any problem with a new diver going to 60-80 feet in clear tropical water with a professional DM.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Even with a professional were told not to exceed their training limit, get the training first.
What others do is up to them.

Funny that. I had an instructor tell me I could not join a dive to 40m as I did not have a padi Deep dive cert. I asked to see his DM's deep dive cert and his deep dive cert. He and the DM's did not have one. So I said you allow your professionals to take people to dive depths they are not even certified to themselves. OK he said go on the dive just don't tell anyone as we are trying to sell deep dive cert courses lol.

Any dive op can set their own policy on dives. They do it on boat trips at certain sites they will say ok max depth for this dive 25m.