Question on Form - How many logged dives since certified?

[Miyaru]

Really? Which ones?

For example, the Maldives. Chapter 2, section 11 on page 8. Regulations attached.

So a vacation diver with 3000 dives who happens to be an instructor who did a dive in the last month needs a check dive by law?

In this case, you're within the Maldivian exemption.

 

[Blackcrusader]

For example, the Maldives. Chapter 2, section 11 on page 8. Regulations attached.

In this case, you're within the Maldivian exemption.

Thanks for the link. So one country not a like a lot of countries.

 

[Miyaru]

So one country not a like a lot of countries.

Although the majority of countries doesn't have any laws about diving, those where the diving is a substantial part of the tourism industry do have regulations. I think the Maldives have the most strict laws. Solo diving is simply not allowed and any diving below 30m is forbidden, as well as diving beyond the NDL.

Another example is Malta: an Open Water certification does not allow you to go diving without an instructor. That's only allowed after having an AOW certification. I'm not sure if checkdives are specifically mentioned in the diving regulations, but since instructors are only allowed to work under the umbrella of a registered dive center, and the dive center has the overal responsibility, the result is the same.

Egypt has lots of diving regulations which you can find here: CDWS
Example of a case where the checkdive that was omitted:

3- Mr. Gasser Sameh Fathy - Diving instructor - CDWS professional ID card # 15283
The penalty after reduction: Suspension for 3 months and 15 days.
Violations:
• Violation of international standards by not preforming a check dive to evaluate the participants.
• Causing a serious accident that leads to injuries which required hospitalization.

3 examples. Maybe not a "lot". I don't know if 3 would constitute as "many", "some" might have been semantically more correct.

Edit:
Since this is the Cozumel forum: no idea about regulations in Mexico.

 

[SlugLife]

It was a starting point - but I never took a divers word for it. Until a diver "proved" themselves....

I was skeptical the first few sentences, but this comes across as reasonable.

I'm not actually disagreeing with you, but a filled out logbook is no more proof of a diver's number of dives experienced than is the writing of a number on an op's questionnaire. Both are up to the diver to submit truthfully and easy to "fake", though a faked dive log would take more work.

Absolutely! Unless you view something exported from their dive-computer (that too can be faked, but is more difficult), the only thing a dive-log really proves is someone went through the tedious process of filling one out. You can also export from a dive-computer, but I've also run into issues where a cheap one wasn't logging every dive, ran out of memory, or an old one which couldn't export.

What dives I do have logged, I usually don't have my log-book on me, and they're only logged because SSI courses demand I fill out a bunch in their tedious painful system.

My dive-buddy with a couple decades of experience, tech-certified, and I'd guess 1000+ dives never logs dives.

 

[boulderjohn]

Absolutely! Unless you view something exported from their dive-computer (that too can be faked, but is more difficult),

I bought my first computer nearly a quarter century ago. When I sold it years later, the guy who bought it immediately had a log showing hundreds of dives.

 

[Wibble]

Nobody with experience and skills would bat an eyelid if asked for a checkout dive. It's pretty telling when people are configuring their kit pre-dive.

 

[mstevens]

What doctor in their right mind would write that note?

I've written such notes for patients...

There are some known contraindications to diving, including both medical conditions and treatments being used. Some are absolute contraindications and some are relative. It's not very complicated to document this appropriately.

We certify that people can fly planes, receive a transplant organ, serve as armed officers, do surgery, carry a key to the nukes, all kinds of things.

It's assessment of risk using known criteria, not a guarantee that nothing could possibly go wrong.

 

[mstevens]

My wife is a PI attorney. I asked her. She relishes the thought of suing an operator who relied solely on that number when taking a customer to an advanced diving site without further questions.

She's admitted to the bar in Mexico, or just not concerned about the challenges of suing someone in a distant jurisdiction?

 

[mstevens]

So regarding the original question, I'd have to put an estimate because I don't know how many dives I have done, and I'm actually a somewhat compulsive data-logger. I love having dives downloaded from our computers in order to track a number of things - "hey, my RMV changed after I got that new backplate and evened out my trim some more!" However, I only know for certain how many dives I have since switching to computers in 2005.

I started diving a couple of years before getting certified in 1980. In college my wife and I did scuba for all our PE and ended up DM'ing or assistant-instructing on a number of dives that even I didn't log. Then our paper logs were eaten by a hurricane.

But that's not really what matters. As Christi points out, in the absence of documentation you put what realistically reflects roughly the number of times you've managed not to kill or irrevocably damage yourself diving. The operator can use that as a rough guide to place you on a boat with appropriate other divers.

Even then, that's not what matters most. As others have pointed out, number of dives or certification does not equal skill. I've been on boats with "instructors" who've terrified me underwater. I've found myself impressed with young teens on their first OW dives with whom I'd be happy to buddy up.

I have, at this point, not all that many Cozumel dives, 406, over 17 years. Most have been with the same DM/instructor who knows us well enough that he has keys to our houses in both Cozumel and the US. We're only in Cozumel 4-6 times a year at this point, which means we're on surface interval for months at a time. Although I think it's fair to say he's familiar with our skills, the first day of any trip we stick to comfortable sites (no Punta Sur or far north) so we can get everything dialed back in. I'd fully expect Chisti or any other good op to have put us on the beginner boat and have her DM's watch us like hawks before letting us expand to where we could get into more trouble.

 

[tridacna]

She's admitted to the bar in Mexico, or just not concerned about the challenges of suing someone in a distant jurisdiction?

Good point. I forgot that this is in the Coz section! As has almost everyone else.