Question on Form - How many logged dives since certified?

[ggunn]

There’s also people using compressed air for airbrushing, running airtools, and nail guns in locations where a portable air supply is the best option. CO2 can be used, but for airbrushing in an enclosed space it can be hazardous. I don’t see welding shops getting sued over mishaps that happen with the gasses they sell.
If the customer signs a waiver at the dive shop stating what they will be using the compressed air for this should be good enough.

Compressed air for diving and for industrial/construction purposes are two different things. Gases for human consumption and the containers they are stored in are subject to different regulations and licensing. When I worked in specialty gases for Liquid Air many moons ago, our part of the facility could fill industrial O2 cylinders but not hospital O2 even though all the gas came from the same air separation plant across the parking lot.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Compressed air for diving and for industrial/construction purposes are two different things. Gases for human consumption and the containers they are stored in are subject to different regulations and licensing. When I worked in specialty gases for Liquid Air many moons ago, our part of the facility could fill industrial O2 cylinders but not hospital O2 even though all the gas came from the same air separation plant across the parking lot.

I never heard of an industrial gas supplier that did regular air fills. Maybe there are, I’ve just never heard of it. So are you telling me that there are two different types of air fills, one for human consumption and the other for industrial use? What type of tank and valve are used for the industrial version?

A dive shop filling scuba tanks with air seems like a pretty good source for people who have compressed air needs. Economical, available, no tank exchange, etc.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

There was a time that dive ops would accept proof of a deep logged dive in lieu of an AOW cert. It was an attempt to grandfather those that had been diving deep already.

I too remember discussions about it being acceptable to work up to doing deep dives with just OW. The two dovetail together. Work up to deeper dives, log them, then you can get around the AOW requirement.

It wasn’t long though before someone would try to sell you an upgrade. That’s essentially what happened to me. At some point, it’s easier just to get the card.

 

[Pressurehead]

Do a ScubaBoard search and you will find many posts from Australia saying that a doctor's approval is required for all divers.

This is all that is required now after filling out a waiver like the one above, all operators have one like this in this state.

MEDICAL STATEMENT
You must be in good health for diving. Any medical history of heart or lung disorders, asthma, diabetes, epilepsy or narcolepsy must be discussed with the reservations staff. You must not dive during the expedition if you are feeling unwell or have a chest cold or respiratory congestion. Any medical condition contrary to these requirements requires a diving medical certificate completed by a diving medical specialist.

From Mike Balls site: Terms and Conditions - Mike Ball Dive Expeditions

 

[gopbroek]

I never heard of a industrial gas supplier that did regular air fills. Maybe there are, I’ve just never heard of it.

The largest (not necessarily the best) filler in Cozumel is Meridiano 87. They do the majority of the fills on the island and also handle the medical and industrial gases for the island.

Llenado de tanques de buceo

I seem to remember reading (possibly in the O2 hackers handbook?) that while industrial O2 has a slightly lower specification than medical O2 in reality it is typically the purest O2 out there because any impurities will show up on a welders flame and weld. The highest spec O2 is ABO (aviators breathing oxygen) due to the low moisture content (so it will not freeze in high flow capillary lines). I have seen a lot of aircraft O2 systems contaminated with moisture due to counterfeit ABO.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

The largest (not necessarily the best) filler in Cozumel is Meridiano 87. They do the majority of the fills on the island and also handle the medical and industrial gases for the island.

Llenado de tanques de buceo

I seem to remember reading (possibly in the O2 hackers handbook?) that while industrial O2 has a slightly lower specification than medical O2 in reality it is typically the purest O2 out there because any impurities will show up on a welders flame and weld. The highest spec O2 is ABO (aviators breathing oxygen) due to the low moisture content (so it will not freeze in high flow capillary lines). I have seen a lot of aircraft O2 systems contaminated with moisture due to counterfeit ABO.

So what does consumable and non consumable O2 have to with breathable or non breathable regular air?
You highlighted my question about air fills and your answer regards O2.
I asked if there was such a thing as industrial air cylinders that are not for consumable 21/79 air.

 

[ggunn]

I never heard of an industrial gas supplier that did regular air fills. Maybe there are, I’ve just never heard of it. So are you telling me that there are two different types of air fills, one for human consumption and the other for industrial use? What type of tank and valve are used for the industrial version?

A dive shop filling scuba tanks with air seems like a pretty good source for people who have compressed air needs. Economical, available, no tank exchange, etc.

Valves are the same but regulations are different. You can use human consumption gas for industrial apps but not the other way round. With good reason; trace amounts of CO when you are filling tires is no big deal.

 

[ggunn]

There was a time that dive ops would accept proof of a deep logged dive in lieu of an AOW cert. It was an attempt to grandfather those that had been diving deep already.

I too remember discussions about it being acceptable to work up to doing deep dives with just OW. The two dovetail together. Work up to deeper dives, log them, then you can get around the AOW requirement.

It wasn’t long though before someone would try to sell you an upgrade. That’s essentially what happened to me. At some point, it’s easier just to get the card.

How would one prove a deep dive to someone who wasn't there? I have only an OW cert but I have had it for nearly 30 years, and I have dived to 155'. It was only once and I won't do that one again; it was a very boring dive, but that's another story.

I have dived to 125' or so multiple times at Punta Sur, but I could write anything I want in my logbook if I logged dives, which I don't. How would showing someone a log book entry be more proof than just telling them?

 

[Bigbella]

Valves are the same but regulations are different. You can use human consumption gas for industrial apps but not the other way round. With good reason; trace amounts of CO when you are filling tires is no big deal.

We successfully used industrial O2 for the shipment of mysids (shrimp) and various small fish and other invertebrates, for laboratories; but we never attempted that with house apes . . .

 

[boulderjohn]

I have dived to 125' or so multiple times at Punta Sur, but I could write anything I want in my logbook if I logged dives, which I don't. How would showing someone a log book entry be more proof than just telling them?

That is why logged dives are really meaningless. A diver can create any sort of log you want in no time. The diver who bought my first computer was a beginner, but his computer log showed hundreds of dives to a maximum depth of 181 feet.

Now, put yourself in a dive operator's place when someone signs up for an advanced dive for which your insurance requires divers with advanced experience. You may argue all you want about whether that easily faked log is any better than an AOW card, but the AOW card has one significant advantage--someone else made the decision. If a diver dies on a deep dive in a way suggesting inadequate preparation, and you get sued, which of the following two statements would you prefer to make when testifying?

1. As standard policy, we require divers to show evidence of adequate training or experience for the dive. I saw his logbook, and after a careful review of the different dives he had done up to that point, I made the decision that he would be OK. It was a judgment call.
2. As standard policy, we require an AOW card, and he had one.