Question Night Diving - requirements, insurance coverage, WRSTC

[Centrals]

How does AOW certify you for night dives?

Two PADI's ways;
1. It was one of the three core dives in PADI AOW certification many yrs ago.
2. As one of three specialty dives of choice. I have no idea if the card indicates the choices!

Other agency might include night dive in their AOW training.

 

[tursiops]

Two PADI's ways;
1. It was one of the three core dives in PADI AOW certification many yrs ago.
2. As one of three specialty dives of choice. I have no idea if the card indicates the choices!

Other agency might include night dive in their AOW training.

Night disappeared as a core class for AOW in 1998.
The AOW card does NOT say what dives you did.

 

[Centrals]

Night disappeared as a core class for AOW in 1998.
The AOW card does NOT say what dives you did.

That is PADI.

Advanced Scuba Diver | NAUI Worldwide. Dive Safety Through Education

Advanced Scuba Diver

www.naui.org

NAUI still includes night night as integral of the course.
And 40m max for deep dive.

 

[dumpsterpurrs]

The thing about 30m vs 40m, I honestly find it confusing too. I have read over and over again that PADI allows AOWs to go to 40m max, but except for the dive shops/guides who push limits a bit or aren't super strict about enforcing max depth, every single dive shop with official max depth has always set it at 30m, not 40m. A very experienced SSI instructor also told me it's 30m.

To further confuse the issue, many agencies offer the Deep 40 (no deco) class and also the Deco 40 class. If the point of Deco 40 is simply to introduce divers to deco and not meant to teach them to go deeper, then what's the point of Deep 40 without deco if PADI already allows AOWs to dive to 40m? And how does it compare with other agencies' AOW-equivalent courses, such as RAID's Explorer 30 and Advanced 35 courses vs PADI's AOW? (I understand the differences between these two courses. The confusion is just about the allowed max depth for PADI's AOWs) And how about Rescue Divers of different agencies. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there agencies saying RDs can go to 40m? Nowadays nobody allows me to go below 30m without getting Deep certed.

Also before I got my AOW, nobody let me night dive with only my OW.

I understand all these discrepancies can feel very confusing to new divers.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Until you go to a resort that requires it! Main reason my wife got her AoW. Sandals Negril

So now resorts are setting the certification requirements for night dives? lol
Ask the resort to show you which agency requires a certification for night dives.
AOW certifications do not prove you have a night dive as part of the training.
Our dear friend DODY got to be a DM in six months and has never done a night dive.

 

[dumpsterpurrs]

So now resorts are setting the certification requirements for night dives? lol
Ask the resort to show you which agency requires a certification for night dives.

They still do though. Or at least they used to, in my case, before I got AOW, then they stopped asking about Night cert. You can question them and if they're good, they'd see their error and fix it. More often than not, they become defensive and argue with you. This practice of misunderstanding agencies' standards and arguing with customers isn't limited to the Night spec or PADI or rec diving. Same situation I've encountered with TDI instructors (including supposedly highly recommended ones in Phuket).

 

[Blackcrusader]

Two PADI's ways;
1. It was one of the three core dives in PADI AOW certification many yrs ago.
2. As one of three specialty dives of choice. I have no idea if the card indicates the choices!

Other agency might include night dive in their AOW training.

I have never done a night dive in training for my padi OW AOW or Rescue. I've been doing night dives since I got my OW in 1986.
Yes it is offered as a choice for the AOW but it is just that a choice. And doing a night dive to see what it is like in AOW does not give you a night diving certification. Also even from BSAC novice cert night diving was done. Never needed a special course for that.

 

[Blackcrusader]

They still do though. Or at least they used to, in my case, before I got AOW, then they stopped asking about Night cert. You can question them and if they're good, they'd see their error and fix it. More often than not, they become defensive and argue with you. This practice of misunderstanding agencies' standards and arguing with customers isn't limited to the Night spec or PADI or rec diving. Same situation I've encountered with TDI instructors (including supposedly highly recommended ones in Phuket).

I wanted to go on a deeper than 30m dive in Thailand. Instructor said cannot without a deep certificate. I asked show me where it says that in PADI and show me your guides deep diving certificate then. Oops their guides who dive to 40m never did the deep diving course either. He then said look you can go on the deep dive but pls don't mention you don't have a deep card as we are trying to sell courses to customers lol. It had nothing to do with experienced divers doing deep dives it was always about the pay another dollar in.

Lots of centers want to push courses to OW divers claiming they cannot dive below 18m yada yada. As Padi states themselves there is no limit even for OW certified divers the recreational limit is 40m.

 

[tursiops]

The thing about 30m vs 40m, I honestly find it confusing too. I have read over and over again that PADI allows AOWs to go to 40m max, but except for the dive shops/guides who push limits a bit or aren't super strict about enforcing max depth, every single dive shop with official max depth has always set it at 30m, not 40m. A very experienced SSI instructor also told me it's 30m.

To further confuse the issue, many agencies offer the Deep 40 (no deco) class and also the Deco 40 class. If the point of Deco 40 is simply to introduce divers to deco and not meant to teach them to go deeper, then what's the point of Deep 40 without deco if PADI already allows AOWs to dive to 40m? And how does it compare with other agencies' AOW-equivalent courses, such as RAID's Explorer 30 and Advanced 35 courses vs PADI's AOW? (I understand the differences between these two courses. The confusion is just about the allowed max depth for PADI's AOWs) And how about Rescue Divers of different agencies. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there agencies saying RDs can go to 40m? Nowadays nobody allows me to go below 30m without getting Deep certed.

Also before I got my AOW, nobody let me night dive with only my OW.

I understand all these discrepancies can feel very confusing to new divers.

The confusion here is the difference between "allows" and "recommends." PADI says an OW card certifies you to 40m, but they recommend not going to 40m -- or 30m -- without additional training and experience. PADI does NOT control -- and cannot control -- what you do except while you are being trained.

AOW trains you to 30m; Deep trains you to 40m. Deco trains you to exceed your NDL.

What a dive operation or resort or a boat might request of you in training -- "certification" -- to allow you to go to some depth, or dive at night, or use certain equipment, is up to that operation or resort or boat (it is not up to the training agencies). But they are being arbitrary when they do that and have no basis for making such a demand. Other operations/resorts/boats will have different rules.

Some of the confusion between "allowed" and "recommended" is driven by fears of liability and enforced by insurance companies.

Yes, sorry, it is indeed confusing to new divers; it is confusing to old divers, too.

 

[Subcooled]

My understanding and findings are as followed:

• An OW certified diver is allowed to take a night dive without additional certifications.

Allowed?
- whatever your insurance company says.

• Night Dive certifications provide in-depth information on necessary equipment, skills, knowledge and experience required to safely dive at night.

Yes. It's quite important to know where the shore is. You might not see it. It's dark.
Light communication is a good thing to know, too.
You will need a dive light.

I understand that for e.g. PADI/SSI requires an Instructor or higher to provide this specific course.

Overkill.
OTOH, "courses" are always provided by instructors.

can a DiveMaster guide a night dive for OW certified divers that have not done the night dive course?

Well, you will need to find your way back.
You will need a capable dive buddy, not certs.
Do you know the OK signal and the distress signal and the attention signal?

I searched the DAN insurance coverage, but it is not really clear for me if it is covered or not.

Because no-one thought that darkness alone would kill a certified diver?