Question Night Diving - requirements, insurance coverage, WRSTC

[Blackcrusader]

Correct. But even though she clearly had the experience, and me as a 34nyr divemaster to vouch, they would not take her on a dive deeper than 60 ft. My AoW had night dives in it, but understand not all must.

A resort can state a DM cannot dive with them deeper than 18m if that is their policy. They can decide whatever they want. I had PADI dive centers in the 1980's 1990's in Asia tell me they didn't recognize my BSAC qualification because they had not heard of BSAC. Plus Oh my god DECO dives, so dangerous, not allowed.

 

[vatty]

I emailed SSI, cause I was curious what their standpoint is on the matter. This is their reply:

SSI’s Standards and Learning Materials are written for, and are applicable only to, the Training Environment. The activity described is outside the Training Environment, and thus the decision lies with the Center’s policies and procedures.

Dive Guides (and thus Dive Masters) have a Practical Application Session on guiding Night Dives in their program. Resort locations frequently take non-Night Diving certified divers on guided night dives.

The Training Center, this would fall under their policies, procedures, and risk mitigation to ensure that their Dive Pros are sufficiently trained to perform this activity. If they are comfortable and feel that they have adequate measures in place to address the safety of their divers on these activities, they can perform them. If they want to set a policy for their Center that divers must hold the certification for the type of dive that they are going on (Night, Deep, Wreck), that is acceptable as well, but this is, at the end of the day, a business decision, as it is outside the Training Environment.

Must give credit to SSI, they replied to my email within 30 minutes and provided a clear answer.

 

[Blackcrusader]

I emailed SSI, cause I was curious what their standpoint is on the matter. This is their reply:
Must give credit to SSI, they replied to my email within 30 minutes and provided a clear answer.

Great so now you understand that outside of training you can dive as you please. I have dived with many an OW diver on their first night dive. All were shore dives with easy entry and exits and were wall dives so even though the ocean dropped below they had a wall to reference.

So it is necessary to do a pre dive briefing and learn a few things before the dive. Shine your torch into an analogue SPG and the backplate will glow so you can read your gauges. A good guide will take you through the things you need to do. You do not need a course for this but you can do one if you so desire.

 

[Germie]

First, in most countries there is no law about diving, so you are allowed to dive without any course.
Also accidents are then covered in your insurance. Here it is the public health insurance.
So if people complaign about doing things outside of certification, the first question can be: Do I do anything that is not allowed by law? The answer is no then. So you do things right according to law.

End of discussion. I have done as open water diver deep dives during nighttime, dove in current and deeper than the 20m, etc, all on my own. Al advanced open water diver I started doing decompression diving. I also have taken as 3* diver new divers under water without being instructor. Of course some people complaigned, but I did nothing wrong according to any law.
All those dives where also covered by my insurance. And everybody can say in my country he or she is an instructor and found a dive agency. That is allowed, also as everybody is allowed to say he is a farrier, chiropractor, osteopath, sanio sacral practitioner, etc. In this case it can be important to ask where he did the courses.

BUT, of course there is a BUT, a BIG BUT:
Is it better to do such things with an experienced diver? Yes, so that is why some or most agencies state the first new dive of something must be done with an instructor. Or you need a cert to do things with a divingcenter.
Nightdiving is no rocketscience, but sometimes it feels better to do it with an experienced diver or instructor the first time. If an agency states the first dive must be with an instructor and you booked the dive with a divingcenter that is member of that agency, the divingcenter must follow this rule.

For some things some agencies don't have certs. A nightdiver cert is not available within CMAS Netherlands, nightdiving is part of a 2* cert, also driftdiving, deep diving, etc.

In the diving world you can say some certs are usefull or needed, some are maybe usefull and some are just for fun.

Usefull and needed, don't do it on your own:
open water, aow, nitrox, trimix, cave, ccr, etc

Maybe usefull, but also possible to learn on your own:
drysuit, nightdiving, driftdiving, sidemount, etc
(The theory about nitrox can also be learned on your own, but I think it is good to do some analysis during a course).

Just for fun:
biology, photography, boat diving, etc.

This list is not complete, but an example. Doing technical dives without courses is not a good idea. Cavediving as open water diver, a very bad idea.

But a lot of divecenters only prepare divers to be under water and holding by hand. The next step also need be done by holding a hand, and earn more and more money by selling the next course. There is no place for a diver who don't need guides, or learned things by being autodidactical. I want to see that divecenters are more open for divers who are really experienced enough and don't need babysitters. The guides are then there for the divers who need them or want them.

There is also a big difference in divers, some are naturals and some need more help. If you are one of the last group, don't worry, enjoy your diving and ask help.
If you think you can learn from a course and it feels better to take it, take it.

 

[vatty]

Great so now you understand that outside of training you can dive as you please. I have dived with many an OW diver on their first night dive. All were shore dives with easy entry and exits and were wall dives so even though the ocean dropped below they had a wall to reference.

So it is necessary to do a pre dive briefing and learn a few things before the dive. Shine your torch into an analogue SPG and the backplate will glow so you can read your gauges. A good guide will take you through the things you need to do. You do not need a course for this but you can do one if you so desire.

Thanks for the info, I am aware of nights dives and have already done many of them. I did actually get the night dive specialty, since I thought it was good knowledge to obtain for being a DM.

There was just a small discussion/confusion in my mind what the regulations are - but that has been cleared up now.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Thanks for the info, I am aware of nights dives and have already done many of them. I did actually get the night dive specialty, since I thought it was good knowledge to obtain for being a DM.

There was just a small discussion/confusion in my mind what the regulations are - but that has been cleared up now.

Are you currently a DM and are asking these questions because you have not yet led a night dive but would like to? If so, that was not clear from your original post. Just curious.

 

[vatty]

Are you currently a DM and are asking these questions because you have not yet led a night dive but would like to? If so, that was not clear from your original post. Just curious.

I'm currently an Assistant Instructor and I've lead night dives. It was just a small discussion between me and an instructor about what can or can not be based on what SSI says or DAN for instance.

 

[tursiops]

I'm currently an Assistant Instructor and I've lead night dives. It was just a small discussion between me and an instructor about what can or can not be based on what SSI says or DAN for instance.

Are you satisfied now that it is a non-issue, both for SSI and DAN?

 

[vatty]

Are you satisfied now that it is a non-issue, both for SSI and DAN?

Yes I am.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Thanks for the info, I am aware of nights dives and have already done many of them. I did actually get the night dive specialty, since I thought it was good knowledge to obtain for being a DM.

There was just a small discussion/confusion in my mind what the regulations are - but that has been cleared up now.

Ah so. I guess a lot of us thought you were an OW diver asking if a DM could take you on a night dive without you having done a night dive certificate. That was my initial thought but shows I was incorrect. Great you want to go on to be a DM Are you doing that so you can go on to be an instructor? Glad your question has been resolved. This has been a good Q&A thread.

I have lead dives outside of a commercial environment when diving with friends both day and night. My friends have also led dives. In Taiwan a lot of divers here just rent tanks and go on their own shore dive trips around Taiwan.