AOW & Nitrox course - What to expect?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

What IS your opinion regarding making Nitrox one of the 5 AOW specialties?

That's a red flag of a joke of a dive op. There are no underwater skills associated with nitrox. If we were having this conversation over the phone or over a beer, I'd be using much more colorful language.

 

[JackD342]

DSMB is the Delayed Surface Marker Buoy. It is a new standard specialty. There is no student manual for it, so I wrote one for my students (the VP of products, Ted Moreta, wasn't interested in it unfortunately).

So for the PPB, I'd have my students frog kick as part of traveling over a sensitive bottom (silty), and they had to do so smoothly, and everyone has needed practice sessions before moving onto the next one, navigation. I felt quite strongly that in order for a student to be task loaded with navigation, they had to be able to fin smoothly and have good buoyancy and trim, otherwise students have a tendency to rise as they go fin. For the night, students had a lot of difficulty with navigating a triangle, as they needed to keep their depth constant, as if they followed the bottom, they'd wind up nowhere near the starting point. Deep has weak requirement, so I didn't do anything special there. DSMB, they had to deploy from midwater without much change in depth, and when ascending, they had to stop, and keep the line tight when working through the performance requirements. All that, for a relatively new diver, that's just not happening in 5 dives.

I'd have a good conversation with the dive op you choose about your expectations and their standards for training. I guess you want to be challenged and work hard for improving your diving skills. Sounds like to me that GUE fundies/UTD essentials/ISE basics are better options, but logistics may prevent that.



Now that's funny! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Oh, the image in my mind: wind blows exam into the water. Instructor looks at the papers fly away, thinks "oh s__t! Now what I'm gong to do? .... I know!", and says .....

Triangle navigation on PADI Night Adventure dive?
Did I miss a change somewhere? The first night navigation exercise isn’t that complex. For that matter, I didn’t find a triangle specified in ANY dive for Night or UW Navigation. What am I missing?
.

 

[JackD342]

Triangle navigation on PADI Night Adventure dive?
Did I miss a change somewhere? The first night navigation exercise isn’t that complex. For that matter, I didn’t find a triangle specified in ANY dive for Night or UW Navigation. What am I missing?
.

Never mind, looks like you aren’t PADI. Too many conversations here have agency bias. A general question is asked without specifying cert agency, and then we pile on with different overlapping and conflicting responses that also don’t include the context of agency.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Triangle navigation on PADI Night Adventure dive?
Did I miss a change somewhere? The first night navigation exercise isn’t that complex. For that matter, I didn’t find a triangle specified in ANY dive for Night or UW Navigation. What am I missing?
.

You didn't miss anything.

The PADI standards state: Navigate to a predetermined location using a compass/natural features and return to within 8 metres/25 feet of the starting point, surfacing for orientation only if necessary.

It didn't say a straight line! Seriously, they did out and back in OW, and a square in navigation. Training is supposed to be progressive right?

Never mind, looks like you aren’t PADI. Too many conversations here have agency bias. A general question is asked without specifying cert agency, and then we pile on with different overlapping and conflicting responses that also don’t include the context of agency.

I used to be a PADI instructor. I went inactive at the end of last year.

 

[JackD342]

Never mind, looks like you aren’t PADI. Too many conversations here have agency bias. A general question is asked without specifying cert agency, and then we pile on with different overlapping and conflicting responses that also don’t include the context of agency.

HA! I correct myself yet again. I look closer, and find that a PADI IDC Staff Instructor takes shots at me for accurately describing the options within the PADI system?
????

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

HA! I correct myself yet again. I look closer, and find that a PADI IDC Staff Instructor takes shots at me for accurately describing the options within the PADI system?
????

Not sure if that comment is directed at me. If I took shots at you, it wasn’t intended. Maybe I misread something as after I click post reply it’s lights out.

 

[JackD342]

Not sure if that comment is directed at me. If I took shots at you, it wasn’t intended. Maybe I misread something as after I click post reply it’s lights out.

Your post #41 appears directed my way. Maybe I missed something.

You didn't miss anything.

The PADI standards state: Navigate to a predetermined location using a compass/natural features and return to within 8 metres/25 feet of the starting point, surfacing for orientation only if necessary.

It didn't say a straight line! Seriously, they did out and back in OW, and a square in navigation. Training is supposed to be progressive right?



I used to be a PADI instructor. I went inactive at the end of last year.

Yep, training is progressive. But this is the first night dive, so requiring mastery of a new navigation skill in the dark, may not be the best choice, or at least not suitable for all. That dive is learning to do what you already know, but do it at night.
Now that I think about it, I don’t think there is any requirement that UW Navigation dive is a prerequisite for Night, so the only base compass skills come from OW course.

 

[AfterDark]

AOW & Nitrox course - What to expect? If it's anything like similar to what I experienced, expect to be ripped off, both were a joke, IMO.

 

[Efka76]

In AOWD 2 dives are mandatory (Navigation and Deep) and 3 dives you can choose. Based on my experience I would suggest you these dives:

1) Search and recovery (I did full S&R specialty, which was the most interesting for me from all specialties).
2) Wreck - if there is a wreck nearby, this is a must. It is even more interesting to penetrate the wreck, however, penetration is done only on 4th dive if you take full Wreck specialty.
3) Night - very interesting dive as you can see night creatures and it is a completely different feeling when diving at night.

Nitrox is a must specialty (if you intend to go to liveaboards) as nobody will give you nitrox fills without certification. It is very easy to read theory, pass exam and do practical tank analysis. However, that theory knowledge is a must. I read about cases when people disregarded Nitrox MOD warnings and drowned. I did Nitrox together with AOWD. 2 of my dives were combined with other specialty dives (Wreck and Navigation.... if I am not mistaken). I had opportunity to dive with 32% and 36% Nitrox.

After AOWD and Nitrox I would suggest you to do Deep specialty (will allow you to go to 40 m depth). As I mentioned befeore, Search and recovery is very interesting too. Other specialties such as Drift, Night, UW naturalist are a bit gimmick. You can get that knowledge by ding practical dives.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Your post #41 appears directed my way. Maybe I missed something.

Sorry mate. It wasn't, but I could see how it could have been.

[QUOTE="JackD342, post: 8450857, member: 497511"Yep, training is progressive. But this is the first night dive, so requiring mastery of a new navigation skill in the dark, may not be the best choice, or at least not suitable for all. That dive is learning to do what you already know, but do it at night.
Now that I think about it, I don’t think there is any requirement that UW Navigation dive is a prerequisite for Night, so the only base compass skills come from OW course.[/QUOTE]

The Puget Sound is quite dark during the day (dive lights are always a necessity, just for safety IMO). So going from daytime to nighttime isn't that much of a difference. If a student has their buoyancy down and is competent with a compass, it hasn't overwhelmed any of my students to do a triangle. They just needed to be better about maintaining a constant depth. Also, I never taught more than two students at once. While I understand that standards for all organizations allow it, I haven't and never would do that, as I don't think I can teach effectively as students need more individual attention. There just isn't enough gas in the cylinder and the water is too cold to have the time to teach a larger group effectively. Just my 2 psi. You and others may feel my judgement was poor for this, and others may think it was appropriate.

In terms of order, there is none specified. However, I do think that an AOW course can be really valuable depending on how it is taught. Part of that is making the skills required for each successive dive to be progressive. This cannot be done for deep, as there are no skills involved. Looking at colors disappearing and different depth gauge readings are not skills. Those are just things to note, nothing more. But getting the foundation for trim, buoyancy, and finning with PPB, and then adding navigation, and then adding night where the pattern is more complex is progressive at night were sufficiently sized steps that helped my students improve. The DSMB dive just built on PPB. That's the best I could come up with for AOW. If I was still teaching under the PADI system, I'd be open for suggestions on improving it further, but I've moved on and prefer just teaching specialties where my current agency encourages me to exceed the minimal standards. We all target different parts of the scuba market. As long as everyone is safe and happy, that's the most important thing.