To kill or not to kill lionfish in the Caribbean and Florida?

[Russell Bowyer]

I've seen them as deep as 340. Tend to agree, divers drive them deeper. There is one big guy I've been trying to harvest. Wounded him the first time, he hid. 2nd time I spotted him 60ft away he was already speedily heading into the cave. Third time I met him he had moved 80ft deeper, and he darted into a cave before I could get within 20ft.... I might have been narked, but they are fairly fast learners.

Here in Cozumel the most I'm seeing are in the 160-250 range. Rough numbers for every one I take at 50-100ft, I'll see 5 deeper.

However, on a less frequently dove reef in the 80-100ft range though 3 days ago this was my harvest, I quit when both keepers were full. Plus 6 too small to fillet.

View attachment 454740

That's a lot of lionfish and worrying that you had to quite when your keepers were full and not that your dive was over or that you couldn't find any more!

 

[northernone]

That's a lot of lionfish and worrying that you had to quite when your keepers were full and not that your dive was over or that you couldn't find any more!

Yes, thankfully that's unusual here though.

I've pulled 150 or so off the reef in the past two months. Carrying a spear 20% of the time. Been socially diving and doing photography more.

Scouted the spot and filled the small keeper the day before, built the bigger one and returned to fill both.

Cameron

 

[Blasto]

The cane toad introduction has caused further problems, as these are out of control and have no natural predators. The virus introduction also has major implications and unknown long term effects too!

Yep. That's why we need a far better understanding of ecosystems in flux than we have now - let alone a century ago - before even considering that option.

Stopping invasive species calls for a solution tailored through genetic engineering, not a natural organism. It needs a limited number of reproductive cycles, more than 1-2 that current GM crops have, but still a cap, holding through generations. And, since humans do screw up and that will never change, we'll have to learn to take failsafe design seriously.

However hard it is, in the long term, I feel like it's the only option that can halt the self-propagating damage we've caused to existing ecosystems. Possibly more (if the AGW theory holds up, the only option that can eventually counteract it). Positive feedback chains call for propagating mechanisms to break them. Until such can be deployed in a safe manner, we can just buy some time for some local environments we value the most.

 

[Russell Bowyer]

Yes, thankfully that's unusual here though.

I've pulled 150 or so off the reef in the past two months. Carrying a spear 20% of the time. Been socially diving and doing photography more.

Scouted the spot and filled the small keeper the day before, built the bigger one and returned to fill both.

Cameron

But I guess will only get worse, as they breed more and more.

 

[Russell Bowyer]

One other thought on the lionfish problem in the Caribbean is that eventually as their numbers increase, the food they eat will diminish and therefore will not be able to sustain the numbers? Perhaps in the end nature will find a way, as it usually does. However, the problem in the interim is the decimation of many local species

 

[boulderjohn]

Perhaps in the end nature will find a way, as it usually does. However, the problem in the interim is the decimation of many local species

It is interesting to note the earlier quote of this from Jurassic Park, a work of fiction. Don't forget that in the book, the man who said that dies without seeing how things turn out.

Similarly, in real life, nature finding a way can take many millions of years, with the vast majority of species in existence before nature started working on the problem no longer around to see the solution.

It has been a long time since the human obsession with otter skin coats eliminated the Oregon sea otter. Attempts to reintroduce other otters into the area have failed. The devastating effects of the loss of that critical part of the ecosystem are now pretty standard parts of school curricula.

 

[Russell Bowyer]

It is interesting to note the earlier quote of this from Jurassic Park, a work of fiction. Don't forget that in the book, the man who said that dies without seeing how things turn out.

Similarly, in real life, nature finding a way can take many millions of years, with the vast majority of species in existence before nature started working on the problem no longer around to see the solution.

It has been a long time since the human obsession with otter skin coats eliminated the Oregon sea otter. Attempts to reintroduce other otters into the area have failed. The devastating effects of the loss of that critical part of the ecosystem are now pretty standard parts of school curricula.

I can't argue with that John - it's also a bit like the grey squirrels that were introduced into the UK that have decimated the native red squirrels. The American Crayfish that have wiped out indigenous crayfish and so on... I guess it was a bit of wishful thinking. I hope that I'm not going to die like the character in Jurassic Park though!!

 

[dmaziuk]

Thou shalt not kill.

You do know it's not what it actually says, yes?

 

[tursiops]

A good but worrying video, although it does provide some hope if sharks begin to prey on the lionfish. So now having a re-think about whether it's good or not to feed them to sharks. The other predator is the moray eels, which is what we fed the smaller ones to in Barbados, as there were no sharks there to feed on them.

Please note that feeding a lionfish to a shark or a grouper or a moray doesn't make that shark or grouper or that moray a predator. And there is NO scientific evidence that the predators learn to predate. What they learn is to beg from divers. Which is not a desirable result....

There was a lot of hope and hype early on. It has not panned out.

 

[drrich2]

While there's no credible chance lionfish spearing will drive them into extinction regionally, there's a credible chance it will remain some 'reservations' of protected reef space where prey species and maintain viable populations, perhaps enabling survival of their species, as we wait for 'nature' to achieve this anticipated new equilibrium.

An equilibrium that may still see the extinction of some species.

Spear'em!!!

Richard.