To kill or not to kill lionfish in the Caribbean and Florida?

[kelemvor]

Actually, do we know what depths they will go to, as Boulderjohn talks about 200 feet, I must admit I thought they had a tendency to be in the shallower reefs up to around 20-40 metres (65-130 feet). But I guess I am mistaken?

Oh yea, they thrive in deep waters too. Here's a video of a wreck at 300 feet which is covered in lionfish.

 

[kelemvor]

Here is a program which aired on the Smithsonian channel. Apparently scientists are working on training sharks to eat the lionfish. That may be where things got started with regards to divers feeding speared lionfish to sharks and eels. The program does not specify the scientists to which it refers.

 

[Blasto]

However, killing creatures never comes easy to me. I justify it by the fact that they are 'destroying' local fauna in a way that indigenous creatures are not prepared for or have grown or evolved to deal with.

Rest safe in knowing you probably can't make much of a difference. They breed fast and the few you can kill in a few hours a day underwater - tops - are a drop in the bucket.

There are no moral qualms here. Ecosystems rely on apex predators, self-restrained by long lifecycles with slow breeding, to complete the chain, otherwise fast-breeding low-level predators can crash the system's base.

A working solution would have to be biological intervention, which brings all sorts of own uncertainties - we need a strong understanding of ecosystems, not just steady-state, but in flux brought by unintended intervention, before deliberately altering them in a propagating way. As it is, what divers can achieve is just slow down the damage locally at their reef.

 

[arew+4]

Introduce rats with your ships, when they take over introduce snakes to cull them. When rats are gone, say good by to your song birds.

Ask Hawaii.

Fortunately most snakes can't make thousands of baby snakes every couple of months.

 

[northernone]

Actually, do we know what depths they will go to, as Boulderjohn talks about 200 feet, I must admit I thought they had a tendency to be in the shallower reefs up to around 20-40 metres (65-130 feet). But I guess I am mistaken?

I've seen them as deep as 340. Tend to agree, divers drive them deeper. There is one big guy I've been trying to harvest. Wounded him the first time, he hid. 2nd time I spotted him 60ft away he was already speedily heading into the cave. Third time I met him he had moved 80ft deeper, and he darted into a cave before I could get within 20ft.... I might have been narked, but they are fairly fast learners.

Here in Cozumel the most I'm seeing are in the 160-250 range. Rough numbers for every one I take at 50-100ft, I'll see 5 deeper.

However, on a less frequently dove reef in the 80-100ft range though 3 days ago this was my harvest, I quit when both keepers were full. Plus 6 too small to fillet.

 

[Cowfish Aesthetic]

Kill them, kill them all. Learn to kill efficiently so you can kill more faster.

That said, I'm on the fence about feeding them to predators and extremely skeptical about the ability to "teach" said predators.

 

[Russell Bowyer]

Oh yea, they thrive in deep waters too. Here's a video of a wreck at 300 feet which is covered in lionfish.

That is a lot of lionfish!! Thank you for sharing that

 

[Russell Bowyer]

Here is a program which aired on the Smithsonian channel. Apparently scientists are working on training sharks to eat the lionfish. That may be where things got started with regards to divers feeding speared lionfish to sharks and eels. The program does not specify the scientists to which it refers.

A good but worrying video, although it does provide some hope if sharks begin to prey on the lionfish. So now having a re-think about whether it's good or not to feed them to sharks. The other predator is the moray eels, which is what we fed the smaller ones to in Barbados, as there were no sharks there to feed on them.

 

[snowdog61]

Rest safe in knowing you probably can't make much of a difference. They breed fast and the few you can kill in a few hours a day underwater - tops - are a drop in the bucket.

As it is, what divers can achieve is just slow down the damage locally at their reef.

yeah what he said..... They unfortunately are here to stay. No matter how many we kill up-top, there will always be more deep to take their place. I love the taste of lionfish so will hunt them at every opportunity. My muck stick is now a small lionfish polespear and it goes with me even when I'm in photography only mode. There are reefs where I don't see a one - sad for my dinner plate but great overall. But again, I have no doubts that they will eventually move back in. The one thing I didn't know (or have seen) is that they are in the mangrove nurseries - that really scares me

 

[Russell Bowyer]

Rest safe in knowing you probably can't make much of a difference. They breed fast and the few you can kill in a few hours a day underwater - tops - are a drop in the bucket.

There are no moral qualms here. Ecosystems rely on apex predators, self-restrained by long lifecycles with slow breeding, to complete the chain, otherwise fast-breeding low-level predators can crash the system's base.

A working solution would have to be biological intervention, which brings all sorts of own uncertainties - we need a strong understanding of ecosystems, not just steady-state, but in flux brought by unintended intervention, before deliberately altering them in a propagating way. As it is, what divers can achieve is just slow down the damage locally at their reef.

I don't know whether you mean an intervention by way of some form of other species introduction, like they did in Australia with the cane toads or some form of infection control by introducing something like myxomatosis, as they did in the UK and Australia to control rabbits.

The cane toad introduction has caused further problems, as these are out of control and have no natural predators. The virus introduction also has major implications and unknown long term effects too!