Would You Use A Ponypak

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I'll chime in on the side of the divers who seem to feel that the PonyPak is an expensive solution looking for a problem. Sling bottles work just fine, and the argument that they add too much weight to one side thus off-balancing the wearer is specious. The weight difference is negligible and I've never noticed any issues with balancing in any of the students I've taught advanced classes with pony or sling bottles. By the time someone needs such an apparatus as the PonyPak they should be good enough divers that a slung bottle doesn't affect their trim in the water.

Your approach to dealing with dissenting opinions comes across as an ad hominem attack. Rather than resolve the issues raised you seem to prefer to attack the character of the dissenters. All I can say is that this isn't exactly a sustainable model for any business and that perhaps you should reconsider your decision to invest time and money in such a venture if you can't take differing opinions from your own.

-Adrian
 
In other words.. SHUT UP, mind your own business, if you don't have something positive to say about my product, then say nothing at all. Besides, what does it matter to YOU if I try to push something that nobody on this forum seems to see value in

Amen..... but with one tweak. "If you can't say something nice...at least say something funny." I've never met a funny lawyer. No change here.

As to "nobody on the forum seems to see value?" Some have suggested "It has its place, for some people".... no differently than any other piece of gear.

But the fact is, over 4500 people have viewed this thread, and have said nothing negative. Are they all in agreement? Or are they the "Silent Majority" who will rationally decide for themselves, and don't want to be verbally mistreated in the process? Who knows. But that fact grows "curiouser, and curiouser" by the hour.

Has anyone, on this forum answer the OP's question in the affirmative?

Yes. And the unremarkable fact (at least to me) is that he is the ONLY person on this list to state - I have seen this for real. It is Post#27 "ScubaInChicago" to whom I say, "Thank you."

I saw a presentation of one at my local scuba club. It was amazing, way better than a Spare Air (even a manifolded set). Since going to a rebreather I've been looking for a better bailout option. I wonder if there is a Tech version w/ BO & deco gasses?

I appreciate your "vote for reasonable dialog."

Regards,
William (Bill) Messner
www.PonyPak.com

[FONT=&amp]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
 
In other words.. SHUT UP, mind your own business, if you don't have something positive to say about my product, then say nothing at all. Besides, what does it matter to YOU if I try to push something that nobody on this forum seems to see value in.

Amen.......

...the ONLY person on this list to state - I have seen this for real. It is Post#27 "ScubaInChicago" to whom I say, "Thank you."
I saw a presentation of one at my local scuba club. It was amazing, way better than a Spare Air (even a manifolded set). Since going to a rebreather I've been looking for a better bailout option. I wonder if there is a Tech version w/ BO & deco gasses?
I appreciate your "vote for reasonable dialog."

image.png

Why would I need to be funny, when your utter inability to detect sarcasm is doing all the work for me?
 
Yes. And the unremarkable fact (at least to me) is that he is the ONLY person on this list to state - I have seen this for real. It is Post#27 "ScubaInChicago" to whom I say, "Thank you."



I appreciate your "vote for reasonable dialog."

Regards,
William (Bill) Messner
www.PonyPak.com

[FONT=&amp]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]

Have you considered the possibility of sarcasm? Do you really see a tech diver putting deco gas in a PonyPak? Why?

Yes, you have something that may be better than a Spare Air (but it will not travel as well). But it really offers few advantages over current pony options. I just don't see the added stability as being much of an advantage. And I don't care for the way it must be attached to enjoy that added stability. I do see the dedicated 1st stage as a very big disadvantage. And god knows what that 2nd stage is. Where will it be serviced? Where are the parts? My slung pony probably cost me about $250 and the regulator can be used on my 13 or 19 cu ft rig just as well as my 63 or 80 cu ft rig. (And I can choose from an array of 1st and 2nd stages to use.) I just don't see the value for the added cost and limited application.

It might not be a bad time to cut your losses.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is one of those train wrecks you just can't not watch....
 
Sling bottles work just fine

I agree, which is why PonyPak is designed to mount side sling (and tank mount) for those who prefer. That said, you don't need PonyPak, unless you would like the advantage of the hose clipping system. It is superior for those who wear thick gloves.

the argument that they add too much weight to one side thus off-balancing the wearer is specious. The weight difference is negligible and I've never noticed any issues with balancing in any of the students I've taught advanced classes with pony or sling bottles. By the time someone needs such an apparatus as the PonyPak they should be good enough divers that a slung bottle doesn't affect their trim in the water.

Please reread all my posts. It has never been my argument that they "add too much weight." What I have truthfully stated, is: that is the universal answer given to me by divers who do not now diver redundant (which is the vast majority of sport divers). Their perception of side mount and tank mount is that it is a problem. They do not want to pay money to learn whether it can (or cannot) be resolved satisfactorily for them. The argument is not mine. It is theirs. If it was mine, PonyPak would not be designed for side and tank mount (in addition to front mount).

The front mount position, offers an option, for those who do not now dive redundant. If any diver is not interested in that solution - don't buy it. Or, if they do (for other reasons) side or tank mount it as you wish. PonyPak is about choices.

By the time someone needs such an apparatus as the PonyPak they should be good enough divers that a slung bottle doesn't affect their trim in the water.

That is a curious statement coming from an instructor. Every diver needs redundancy from his first dive - as a student. I would encourage you to invest greater time into studying the global statistics on diver fatalities, that are triggered by being out of air. 10% of fatalities occur while they were in training.

The following is from an exceptional primer on this subject, published by Dr. Carl Edmonds, in X-ray magazine.

Please see my lengthy address on this subject, in Post #100. I included multiple links, to the underlying publications and research (most of it coming from DAN). Clearly, you understand the importance of redundancy...just not when it is the proper time to begin diving redundant.


COMBO What Are Risks REally w Permission from X-Ray Magazine_Page_1 (3).jpg
Please download the entire article (published in X-Ray Magazine)

http://www.xray-mag.com/pdfs/article..._45_locked.pdf


Your approach to dealing with dissenting opinions comes across as an ad hominem attack. Rather than resolve the issues raised you seem to prefer to attack the character of the dissenters. .

I have "attacked" no one. I did not start this post. I had no choice but to address the issues that were being raised by people who have never seen the product, let alone dive with it.

I have welcomed every opinion, and have addressed each, respectfully. Sometimes I have tried to use humor to diffuse an unnecessarily vitriolic statement, by a person who has never seen the product. Is that really, an attack?

My only request is that people raise their issues, with equal respect - exactly as you have done here. Thank you.

All I can say is that this isn't exactly a sustainable model for any business and that perhaps you should reconsider your decision to invest time and money in such a venture if you can't take differing opinions from your own.

I appreciate your comment. Whether it is, or is not "a sustainable" business model - we will see. PonyPak as gone through seven years of development. I have sourced the opinons of people with far greater expertise on the related subjects, than anyone (so far) who has voiced their opinions here. I have listened, and learned from them. And the product(s) (actually all three) have evolved into what many believe (who have actually seen and dived with the product), is a commercially viable set of solutions, for many people, in a variety of circumstances.

Please reread all my responses. A reasonable person cannot conclude "you can't take differing opinions from your own." I take them all just fine. But my experience with this product, is substantially greater than anyone else (in this forum) with this product. That my conclusions differ? How surprising can that possibly be?

I appreciate the courtesy of your comments. Thank you.

Regards,
William (Bill) Messner
www.PonyPak.com

[FONT=&amp]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
 

Attachments

  • 19-RF3_Orr_103-108-2B.jpg
    19-RF3_Orr_103-108-2B.jpg
    22.7 KB · Views: 159
Why would I need to be funny, when your utter inability to detect sarcasm is doing all the work for me?

That is as good a reason as any to be humorless....

---------- Post added February 26th, 2015 at 08:45 PM ----------

This is one of those train wrecks you just can't not watch....

Sorry, rhwestfall.... we need to put the remote on "pause" until next week. This is my last response for a few days. I have to prepare for two (2) seminars I am giving at Our World Underwater, this weekend, (along with managing our booth.)

One seminar is on the PonyPak Umbilical System. The second is for all divers. It is based upon the research article by Dr. Carl Edmonds, of the same title: "What are the risks, really?"

If that interests you, download the entire article (published in X-Ray Magazine)

http://www.xray-mag.com/pdfs/article..._45_locked.pdf

You might want put the popcorn in the fridge (or maybe the freezer). I've heard it will keep, at least as good as cold pizza ...... until I "un-pause" ... probably next Tuesday."

To everyone else, in the meantime, I will quote The Inquisition Jail Guard from the musical "Man of La Mancha"

"Kill each other if you will.....just do it quietly."

[FONT=&amp]William (Bill) Messner[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
Home
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
 
Last edited:
Hi Bill, make that 2 people here who have seen the PonyPak. We Dove in cape Elizabeth Maine while you were in development back in 2007 or so?

Pete
 

Back
Top Bottom