Would You Use A Ponypak

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Don't read much more than that into it.

Well... I grew up in Canada so that makes me double nice ... LOL :D

No, I actually think that they may have something here. Every innovation in scuba diving is initially met with resistance. When the octopus was introduced, people hated it. We spent 10 years in trench warfare when DIR hit the mainstream, we're STILL debating if computers should be considered standard gear or not.... Innovations are adopted slowly in diving because divers (and rightly so) are very risk averse.

Redundancy has been on the radar, even for recreational divers, for some time. Solo diving, the slung pony, the growing awareness that buddy separation and OOA situations are triggers for a great many accidents etc etc etc. There are *good* reasons... REALLY GOOD reasons why people should be taking "bail out" seriously.

Obviously there are several variants available but I actually like this one to some extent. The mounting across the chest is actually quite comfortable and unobtrusive in a jacket style BCD as long as the tank is made from aluminium, which this one is. Don't take my word for it. Try it. ...... you know.... I have two kids and if I cook something new for them, they aren't allowed to have an opinion about whether or not they like it unless they try it at least once. I kind of think this is like that. There is a lot of push back happening on this thread that sounds to me like children saying something is "yucky" before they've even smelled it.

That said, if *I* were designing the system I might have made some other choices than the manufacturer did (and I have pointed those out) but I have no monopoly on being right or knowing what is good for all divers, let alone for the business case of the manufacturer.

What I really like about this is that (finally) a manufacturer has developed a "plug and play" system for bailout that will appeal to the "average" diver. There is a need for this. There is a market for this, I'm sure of it. What's really nice about it is that it will clip to just about any BCD on the market, jacket or otherwise. If it can travel then I think the value only goes up. How many of us (I for one) travel to foreign countries and end up renting gear -- most of the time non-redundant -- on the hope and the prayer that it has been at least marginally taken care of?

Are there other solutions? sure there are.... but this solution -- and by that I mean in particular the rigging -- is definitely an innovation and adds another option to the tool box of safety gear available to divers.

I really don't see the need to be sawing him off at the knees for this.

R..
 
Doc:

"Rich Wife" Nope.... just "no family" to stop me from taking the risk in the beginning, and some key friends who are helping it happen "in the home stretch".

"1-3 Pony years?" I've waited long enough.. we are targeting mid to late summer....2015.

Diver0001:

It must be something in the Dutch and Canadian water....

I appreciate your dissuading the "saw off". I'm short enough as it is....

Regards,
William (Bill) Messner
www.PonyPak.com

[FONT=&amp]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]

---------- Post added February 26th, 2015 at 01:13 PM ----------

The good Doctor Lecter is a Murican,

Ummmm....You seem to know him. I don't. His name sounds awfully familiar. By any chance, is his first name Hannibal?

If so, that mask of his... an amazing design. Was that his?

Maybe he can explain to us how he got it to work underwater. I don't want to jump to any conclusions based upon the photos alone.
 
PonyPak does not require the user to purchase expensive equipment he already owns (BC).


Nor does the Zeagle system I referenced above, which is the same kind of moderately sized tank/all in one valve/1st stage pony system you're hocking here...with a more practical mounting system:
Front-Angle-Mount.jpg8079 Tank pouch 20 cu ft 02.jpg

While I eventually ditched it for a more practical and slightly cheaper stage-rigged AL40 + DIR style stage reg, the Zeagle pony system worked just fine as a redundant air source with both a BCD and a BPW. I'll note that I stowed the hose under rubber bands on the outside of the bag, however, rather than clipped as shown in the Zeagle photo. Much better approach than clipping off the octo and having the hose all over the place, and clearly more secure than PonyPak's silly little clips.


PonyPak is not the main air supply, it provides redundancy, is deployable to another diver, is switchable to side mount (and back) in the water, and also tank mountable. RD is none of that. PonyPak can do everything RD can (with your own BC).

[irrelevant RD ranting omitted]

Now……your problem with PonyPak at $499, is what?


If you want to debate the merits of the Rapid Diver system, you'll need to pick someone other than me to reply to - I never referred to that system. As an aside, Zeagle Express got me a 20cf Zeagle pony system with the bag, OPV, and button gauge for less than $450 shipped...what's your system's price again?



Lastly, on the subject of "unanswered questions," which appears to be your perennial issue ..... a day ago, I asked you a very simple question, which you ignored.

Specifically, are you a licensed doctor? If so, in what? By whom? Where?

With several thousand posts, surely there are more than a few "Inquiring minds who want to know" ..... who "the man behind the curtain" really is.


Do I really have to explain the Thomas Harris character reference? If you want to get technical, I'm a juris doctor.


Aww, you elected not to end with an incredibly fake-sounding thank you...I'm pleased :D
 
Dr. Lecter

A civil, documented post. Thank you. The system you referenced above, has only two attachment points. It will flop around as the diver moves onto his side, or upside down. The clips are not adjustable to any body shape or size. I am surprised you would accept the design as useful, for the time you did.

PonyPak is a four point attachment, is perfectly stable and will not change in any diver orientation. The improved comfort level is substantial.

Your special pricing reflects what I had heard from many sources.. they had a lot of excess inventory (the design did not sell as they anticipated, for some of the reasons just stated) - and dumped it on the market. You were a benefactor. Good for you.

No, you don't need to make there reference. I got it at first glance. Why you would hide your real identity behind such a character, is a puzzlement, until one experiences your unfortunate attitude in your writing.

I guess it makes sense. You're a lawyer, and would not want your clients (or opponents) to link your attitude towards people here, with them.

I get it.

Those of us who post under our real names, with mailing address, phone number and email address readily available, have to treat others in a civil manner.

We get it.

There is nothing "fake" about my appreciation. Had you a different attitude, or had taken the risks that I and others have, to create a safety product (instead of anything else), you might understand.

I hope you get it.

So, for the future, all I ask is you "remove the mask" of your attitude here, and elevate the quality of your conversation, to the level I presume you use, professionally, as a lawyer.

Please.

Regards,
William (Bill) Messner
www.PonyPak.com

[FONT=&amp]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
 
Dr. Lecter

A civil, documented post. Thank you. The system you referenced above, has only two attachment points. It will flop around as the diver moves onto his side, or upside down.

You are mistaken: it only includes two double-enders (sharp-edged brass ones at that, ouch) and that's all that's necessary to securely side sling it (even if a 20cf is a bit short for that mounting option), but the bag as shown above has five attachment points. Were one so inclined, it could quite easily be slung across the chest from the two D-rings and attached at the waist as well...exactly like PonyPak, minus the suicide clips at the chest D-rings.

Of course that would be a messy mounting option that would (a) hang down below the diver further than one likes equipment to dangle; and (b) clutter the chest making it harder to access the LPI, clipped off backup lights, and to move around any other side-slung bottles one may carry. But that's exactly what PonyPak is saying is the ideal mounting point, so there we have it.

As for pricing, you'll note that even without the discount it's on par with what you're saying a 20cf PonyPak might cost. Indeed, I really don't see much of a difference between PP and the Zeagle system on any point outside the FFM options you've mentioned and we can probably agree most sport divers aren't going that route...heck, most tech and CCR divers aren't going that route.

So while I wouldn't be surprised that the Zeagle system didn't sell well, from my point of view that's additional evidence that PonyPak will likely not have much adoption outside whatever FFM market niche you might carve out. The all in one system seems cool at first, until divers realize it's limiting and sub-optimal compared to stage-rigging a regular bottle and putting together a stage reg.
 
Dr. Lector,

Then we have an agreement.

People have choices, depending upon their application, whether they are new to the industry, or not. And each of us should respect the choices, we each make for ourselves, without ridicule or badgering from others.

For everyone, it is a personal decision and nothing more.

And since only I (between us) have anything invested in the decisions of the market place (relative to PonyPak), you have no cause for caring either way. Whether it succeeds or not, for you, is irrelevant.

My suggestion? At this point? Just ignore it. And invest your constructive criticism into those things, in which you truly have a vested interest: i.e. you will experience an actual, personal loss, if it fails.

I appreciate your comments. Thank you.

Regards,
William (Bill) Messner
www.PonyPak.com

[FONT=&amp]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]
 
People have choices, depending upon their application, whether they are new to the industry, or not. And each of us should respect the choices, we each make for ourselves, without ridicule or badgering from others.

For everyone, it is a personal decision and nothing more.

And since only I (between us) have anything invested in the decisions of the market place (relative to PonyPak), you have no cause for caring either way. Whether it succeeds or not, for you, is irrelevant.

My suggestion? At this point? Just ignore it. And invest your constructive criticism into those things, in which you truly have a vested interest: i.e. you will experience an actual, personal loss, if it fails.

Bull:censored:. Were we all to follow your suggested course of (in)action, Scubaboard would simply be a font of ads for products, instead of a forum for debating the relative merits of the various offerings in the marketplace. You're certainly free to advocate for PonyPak, DiverGuard, or any other ill-conceived piece of gear you like - the rest of us are free to disagree as vocally as we like and state the bases for our objections. And as always, the proof will come over time as the market either adopts or does not.
 
You are absolutely right!

But there are two ways to do it.

One way reflects favorably upon the writer's idea. The other reflects diss-favorably upon the writer.

Why you persist in the latter, than the former, I don't know. The lawyers I know, usually choose differently.

But that choice, as in everything else, is entirely up to you.

I appreciate your opinion.
Regards,
William (Bill) Messner
www.PonyPak.com

[FONT=&amp]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]



.
 
Dr. Lector,

Then we have an agreement.

People have choices, depending upon their application, whether they are new to the industry, or not. And each of us should respect the choices, we each make for ourselves, without ridicule or badgering from others.

For everyone, it is a personal decision and nothing more.

And since only I (between us) have anything invested in the decisions of the market place (relative to PonyPak), you have no cause for caring either way. Whether it succeeds or not, for you, is irrelevant.

My suggestion? At this point? Just ignore it. And invest your constructive criticism into those things, in which you truly have a vested interest: i.e. you will experience an actual, personal loss, if it fails.

I appreciate your comments. Thank you.

Regards,
William (Bill) Messner
www.PonyPak.com

[FONT=&amp]The only “buddy” who will never leave your side….. is YOU! [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Give your "buddy" the equipment he needs ... to save your life![/FONT]

In other words.. SHUT UP, mind your own business, if you don't have something positive to say about my product, then say nothing at all. Besides, what does it matter to YOU if I try to push something that nobody on this forum seems to see value in.

Has anyone, on this forum answer the OP's question in the affirmative?
 

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