Cali surf entries and Laguna Closure Question or thoughts ..

[IrnBear]

Hey MaxBottomTime, Thank you for posting this in another thread.


I see you mentioned that this took affect about two years ago.
Most of my early years of diving in laguna were in the late 80's early 90's. Don't recall a whole lot of rules back then. Nor did there need to be any. My dive buddies and I respected the ocean, the reefs, or dive sites etc. Still do.
Back then my buddy and I would get off work (Cali State Lifeguards) jump in the VW Van and be down at Laguna for an awesome night dive. Never really matters to us, the size of the waves, the visibility, etc., we just wanted to be under the water.
We would plow through the waves past the break and awesome diving was most of the times to be had.

Your Post on the other site sparked some interest about some Laguna Clubs and their when to and when not to dive choices.
I am also very curious about the beach closures to diving.

Since my more active return to diving, I am surprised at how many dives are cancelled due to surf conditions. 3-5ft surf does not seem bad to me and it doesn't tend to guarantee bad visibility.

Past few times diving along the Cali coast I have heard "Oh, I wouldn't go out in that" "It's pretty bad out there". This is from folks sitting on the beach with no knowledge as to the visibility. Just going off what the waves look like to them.

When my daughter and I were at Veterans Park over LaborDay Weekend the surf picked up at times. I noticed a number of classes with students having trouble exiting the water. Many had to crawl out (which is an acceptable way of exiting the water). A number of divers walked past my daughter and I (we were standing at the shore line in our gear prepping to enter (reading the wave patterns, waiting for the end of a set and the beginning of a set) saying, "oh, I wouldn't go out there, its not worth it, its really bad"… Humm, walked right out, had a great dive. Ran right out at the end (that quicksand will get you if the wave doesn't).

I guess what I am saying, Has the California Diving Community Gotten Soft.

Are the No Diving Beach Closures in Laguna "Law" or Advisories"? Are they saying you cannot or that you should not?

Just thoughts on my mind.
I understand that newer divers not trained or experienced with the surf, it can be pretty rough…. But how do you learn.
I have been teaching my 17yo daughter how to enter safely and securely in these more or less rough wave days and she has done awesome.

Thoughts on this. I realize this might be a run of thoughts, but oh well.

Thanks for reading,

IrnBear

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

If you live local, you can choose the best days to dive and with accurate / current data it is easier to make a call before driving to the beach.
In the good old days, once you arrived at the beach and had 5' waves, you dived and took a risk on the vis because you where already invested in the dive.

If you are visiting from an area where dive conditions are poor, then the marginal days in So Cal are pretty good.
At Laguna, just come in early (7AM). No parking issues, no life guards to bother you should you dive solo or sans snorkel and the surf is flatter.

 

[undrwater]

Lots of different abilities, knowledge, and expectations out there (bigger sample population than in your early days I'd bet). Not everyone gets to be taught by you, not everyone WANTS to "plow through the waves past the break" (I'm one of those now, but would earlier on), and not everyone is in the correct shape to dive in such conditions.

Many instructors don't seem to know how to teach high surf entry, as evidenced by the circus in the surf zone we see frequently.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

Laguna Beach has city ordinances that require lifeguards to close beaches when the surf is deemed unacceptable. I don't know of any other city that does this. Vet's has a "step" that builds up when the surf comes up. You can be within three feet of dry sand but still have difficulty reaching it. You can either crawl out and risk losing a mask or fins or just get gear full of sand, or if the waves are not overhead you can crouch down and let the wave lift you over the step. Being a sandy beach, large surf usually means poor vis and surge, so the dive won't be worth the effort most times.
La Jolla Shores is completely different. Being shallow for such a long way, overhead surf feels as if someone put water softener in the waves. I've dived there in well over six feet surf and never came close to getting knocked down. There's no power behind the surf there. Marineland, with it's rocky shoreline can be deadly in three feet surf. I know at least six divers who have broken bones there, plus lots of minor injuries and cuts.

 

[scjoe]

Wave heights, like viz, are rather subjective and people estimate wave heights in different ways. A wave breaking just over your head might not have more than 3 or 4 feet of face depending on the tide. To some that is a 3 foot wave and to others it might be a 6 foot wave.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

Wave measurement

 

[scjoe]

The NOAA method of measuring from the trough to the crest as stated in the link isn't the only way height gets measured. Divers in the water aren't taking measurements from shore. They are in the water looking up and are not very consistent in their estimates. Like surfers (and fishermen), they tend to exaggerate.

The Hawaiian scale isn't from the trough and yields smaller heights than the Bascom Method. Some surfers use a mid-point between the two referred to as the surfable wave.

I think it is more useful to talk in terms of body parts as follows:

Ankle to Knee High
Knee to Thigh
Waist High
Chest High
Head High

Of course a 6 foot male has a larger head high wave than a 5 foot female. A head high wave to an experienced surfer using the Hawaiian system might mean a 3 or 4 foot wave, while the NOAA system might call it a 5 or 6 foot wave. Either way, it's usually not a great day for diving.

 

[dead dog]

Many instructors don't seem to know how to teach high surf entry, as evidenced by the circus in the surf zone we see frequently.

Your so right about this, and diving in general. A friend call me up one Friday night and said he had a really bad head cold and had a paid boat trip the next morning and couldn't go and ask me if I wanted the trip. Well, I never turn down a free boat trip.
Well on this trip was an instructor with his class of about 18 or 20 students. First dive of the day this instructor had paired each student up with another student and instructed them to hold hands during the whole dive. I thought this was a bit strange to me. Since I never seen or heard of this kind of instruction before.
When they all came back they were still holding hands. Later I asked the instructor why he had the students holding hands. He said a was concerned about a few of them being able to make the dive. He said he hoovered above them to keep an eye on them. This is a BIG PROBLEM TODAY with today's instructors. They coddle their students.
If they can't make it he should drop them out of the class and refund their money back.
My instructor instructed us to be independent and YES to learn the buddy system, but never to hold hands.
I think it's all about money, pump out more inferior instructors today who teach inferior divers. Who want to be inferior instructors. It's a vicious chain. I read on this board and other boards, " How Do You Find A Good Instructor " and the answer I read is to talk to the instructors and ask as many questions as you can. One of the toughest instructions today and in the past has always been and still is today is the County Of Los Angeles SCUBA next was NAUI. I haven't heard very many good things about PADI , that was the instructor that was on the boat I was on that day. These are my opinions and no one else's. You put your LIFE in the hands of your instructor.

 

[dead dog]

If you live local, you can choose the best days to dive and with accurate / current data it is easier to make a call before driving to the beach.
In the good old days, once you arrived at the beach and had 5' waves, you dived and took a risk on the vis because you where already invested in the dive.

If you are visiting from an area where dive conditions are poor, then the marginal days in So Cal are pretty good.
At Laguna, just come in early (7AM). No parking issues, no life guards to bother you should you dive solo or sans snorkel and the surf is flatter.

This is just the begging of restrictions. Look at the map were you can't take game even if you have a license. Next the whole Pacific Ocean.

https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=36132&inline=true

What is so special about the small area of 882 west of Point Loma ?

There was a time when you could dive all of theses islands that are now restricted by the Fish and Game (wildlife) BUT WHY !

I used to go out to Cortez Bank and Tanner Bank twice a year, but no more thanks to the fish and game.

 

[drbill]

This is just the begging of restrictions. Look at the map were you can't take game even if you have a license. Next the whole Pacific Ocean.

Oh, please. Less than 20% of the So. California coast is in a marine protected area (MPA) and several of these allow take of certain species. The closures are less than that recommended by the scientific community and are indeed much needed. Ask why so many divers come out to Catalina to get their take of bugs or anglers come out here just to catch fish to take back to the mainland. Much of the mainland coast has been overharvested of several species. Just look at the urchin barrens over there because lobster and sheephead have been over harvested.

I just wish more hunters and anglers understood that these reserves are one way to prevent total closures by providing "spill over" to repopulate areas that have been over harvested.